Gove shows the door to creationism as science

[teamsaint]

there is a reasonable amount of "evidence" for some sort of universal consciousness, demonstrated by some areas of quantum physics.

Such a consciousness doesn't seem too far away from religion to me.
I would be happy for these things to be taught in schools.

What passes for "reason" may not always be what it seems.

For a simple and recent example, look at the recent " faster than the speed of light" issues.

Science can do great things, but it can still be misused in the wrong hands ( and that includes in schools).

And don't get me started on "factual" history ..........!!!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

All this nonsense of proving or not the existence of your imaginary friends is by the by
The key thing is that we need to stop nonsense being presented as Science
it's not a question of "balance" more that these people shouldn't be let anywhere near children (nor should Gove for that matter )

This is the real point. Science and religion can co-exist, but creationism is neither. It's a mixture of legend and gullibility. Only a minority of Christians take this fundamentalist view.

...nor should Gove for that matter

I don't think he sees very many of them. He only ever visits a small proportion of the tiny proportion of schools that are Free Schools and Academies. He's in denial about the rest.

[MrGongGong]

What do you think of the National Plan for Music Education Alpen ?

[Flosshilde]

Yes, but we're supposed to be talking about what is taught as science, not the 'ethos' of the school, Floss. Do you deny the right of any parent to bring up his/her child up as they see fit?

You, and others, think all religion is clap-trap ... fair enough ... but there are millions of others who feel exactly the same way about atheism!

It's really a question of freedom of conscience and belief ... no Christian parent would wish atheism rammed down the throat of his/her child ... it works (or should work) both ways!

Evading the point, as usual.

[scottycelt]

Evading the point, as usual.

So you don't believe in freedom of expression, conscience and belief ... ?

[scottycelt]

This is the real point. Science and religion can co-exist, but creationism is neither. It's a mixture of legend and gullibility. Only a minority of Christians take this fundamentalist view. .

I'd agree if 'creationism' means extreme US-style right-wing evangelism.

However, I'm sure billions of folk would be perfectly happy to describe themselves as 'creationists', being believers in 'a Creation of the Universe'.

To be honest, I would consider any believer or atheist who did not accept such an obvious reality as being slightly 'barking' ...

[Serial_Apologist]

I'd agree if 'creationism' means extreme US-style right-wing evangelism.

However, I'm sure billions of folk would be perfectly happy to describe themselves as 'creationists', being believers in 'a Creation of the Universe'.

To be honest, I would consider any believer or atheist who did not accept such an obvious reality as being slightly 'barking' ...

What is so "obvious" about it? My heart beats, nothing other than itself "makes" it beat, it beats itself; why not likewise the universe?

[anotherbob]

Setting aside all the "Oh yes there is", and "Oh no there isn't" vis-a-vis the existence of (a) god, the point is that the proper place for religion in schools is as part of a social history curriculum.

[scottycelt]

What is so "obvious" about it? My heart beats, nothing other than itself "makes" it beat, it beats itself; why not likewise the universe?

Wow ... now there's a nice, cosy little alternative Good Fairy for our resident atheists to believe in ... and, surprise, surprise, absolutely no 'rational' and 'scientific' proof required, either ...

[Vile Consort]

I mean seriously, would you like gove (or blunkett or whoever) to actually choose what your kids learn at school? I wouldn't.

I would quite like them to prohibit the teaching of harmul nonsense, and that is what Gove is doing in this instance.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

To be honest, I would consider any believer or atheist who did not accept such an obvious reality as being slightly 'barking' ...

Woof Woof Woof

[Pabmusic]

Setting aside all the "Oh yes there is", and "Oh no there isn't" vis-a-vis the existence of (a) god, the point is that the proper place for religion in schools is as part of a social history curriculum.

How I agree! There's no suggestion that the teaching of creationism (or any other belief system) is to be banned. As the title of this thread indicates, the issue is about teaching beliefs as if they were science. Scientific discipline is about testing beliefs to find truths, which is incompatible with fundamentalist religions that require unquestioning belief. To teach such beliefs as if they were scientific facts - or even to teach them as differing points of view that have similar validity to scientific findings or proposals - is misleading propaganda.

And this does happen in the USA, where there is a fundamentalist-Christian explanation of evolution called Intelligent Design (ID), which seems plausible to many non-scientists (that is, most of us) who know little of evolution. The issue has been tested in court already under the US Constitution, with rulings that ID is based in religious belief and has no scientific basis. It is against this background that there has been concern that Free Academies (or whatever they're called) over here will be able to teach ID (or anything similar) as if it were science, and exclude real science altogether. And since several academies are sponsored by fundamentalist groups, both Christian and Muslim, the concern is very real.

S-A was right in saying: "Science and religion can co-exist, but creationism is neither. It's a mixture of legend and gullibility. Only a minority of Christians take this fundamentalist view." But this misses the point that we now have an education system in which that minority can have a disproportionate influence over many young people.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What do you think of the National Plan for Music Education Alpen ?

Some good bits. Some patronising bits. The devil is in the reduction of funding each year.

[amateur51]

Yes, but we're supposed to be talking about what is taught as science, not the 'ethos' of the school, Floss. Do you deny the right of any parent to bring up his/her child up as they see fit?
!

If that means indoctrinating them with anti-social attitudes while genuflecting at a particular religion, then the answer is 'yes'. Parents have no business brainwashing their children with skypilotry - let them make up their own minds when they reach the age of majority

And leave their genitals alone too

[amateur51]

Wow ... now there's a nice, cosy little alternative Good Fairy for our resident atheists to believe in ... and, surprise, surprise, absolutely no 'rational' and 'scientific' proof required, either ...

Nope scotty, 'fraid not, it's just a demonstrable explicable quality of human cardiac muscle :