Gove shows the door to creationism as science

[Guest]

I was delighted to read that the Government has issued funding guidelines for free schools that prohibits the teaching of creationism as science

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/15/free-schools-creationism-intelligent-design

It is unclear if this covers existing academies such as those funded by used car salesman Peter Vardy. Mr Vardy has found himself in hot water over creationism in the past.

[Richard Tarleton]

I was delighted to read that the Government has issued funding guidelines for free schools that prohibits the teaching of creationism as science

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/15/free-schools-creationism-intelligent-design

It is unclear if this covers existing academies such as those funded by used car salesman Peter Vardy. Mr Vardy has found himself in hot water over creationism in the past.

Good news indeed. One hopes it would be retrospective, though I daresay there may be contractual reasons why it can't be. There are an awful lot of faith schools out there.....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes, but if Mr Gove has got it right for once, don't let it give you the impression that the Secretary of State for Free Schools and Academies is anything less that a buffoon.
If the minister in question were what his official title says he is, then perhaps he should set foot in one of the huge majority of schools (i.e. normal LEA controlled state schools) that have not opted out into Gove's wilderness.

[teamsaint]

lets hope that the government are just as hot on other things that are taught as facts or certainties that in fact turn out, or might turn out, not to be.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, but if Mr Gove has got it right for once, don't let it give you the impression that the Secretary of State for Free Schools and Academies is anything less that a buffoon.
If the minister in question were what his official title says he is, then perhaps he should set foot in one of the huge majority of schools (i.e. normal LEA controlled state schools) that have not opted out into Gove's wilderness.

... although, to give him his morsel of due, it would be the second time he'd got something right. Getting rid of the GTC at the start of his appointment earned him a lot of Brownie points with most Teachers I know.

[Pabmusic]

My first reaction was: "Thank heaven for that!", which is a nicely confused idea I suppose. It is refreshing, nevertheless, to see reason triumph.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

lets hope that the government are just as hot on other things that are taught as facts or certainties that in fact turn out, or might turn out, not to be.

The trouble here, teamy, is that we don't know what are "facts and certainties" aren't until somebody who has been taught that they are discovers/works out that they aren't.

A confused syntax, but it's only by learning that people can un-learn. (That's no better, is it?)

[Dave2002]

... although, to give him his morsel of due, it would be the second time he'd got something right. Getting rid of the GTC at the start of his appointment earned him a lot of Brownie points with most Teachers I know.

Yes, but teachers aren't the only people who should be concerned. We had an interesting discussion recently about who should be involved in decisions about education.
We didn't like politicians, educationists etc., but teachers also have vested interests. Some (many) teachers are good and keen to help their pupils. On the other hand there are still quite a number who are poor, and have more of an interest in their own welfare and salaries than anything else. There are also some (quite a lot) who are nice people, and well meaning, but are actually pretty ignorant about the subjects which they are supposed to teach. This can be for several reasons. Sometimes the teachers really are not very good at what should be their own subject, but it can also be for other reasons. I have heard of one school where a new (!!) headmaster trashed a school which had been doing well by reorganising it so that almost no teacher taught a subject in which he or she was a specialist! Lunacy!

There are also some teachers who are very knowledgeable about their subject areas, but they are not good presenters, and are not well matched to their students. Getting the balance right is very hard.

Does it necessarily follow that getting rid of the General Teaching Council was a good thing simply because some teachers approve of this? I don't know - I don't know the details, but the GTC web site suggests that its aims may have been worthwhile - http://www.gtce.org.uk/

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Does it necessarily follow that getting rid of the General Teaching Council was a good thing simply because some teachers approve of this? I don't know - I don't know the details, but the GTC web site suggests that its aims may have been worthwhile - http://www.gtce.org.uk/

The expression "Well, they would, wouldn't they?" may be over-used, but it might be apposite here? Bearing in mind that all the weknesses you mention in your post took place whilst the GTC was in full activity.

Is it just "some teachers" who approved of the winding-up of the GTC, Dave? I suspect (and there's nothing to substantiate this supposition beyond my chats with several teachers from different schools in different parts of the country) that there are far more teachers who are relieved or indifferent to the fate of the GTC than there are teachers who "are poor, and have more of an interest in their own welfare and salaries than anything else", or who "are nice people, and well meaning, but are actually pretty ignorant about the subjects which they are supposed to teach", or who "are very knowledgeable about their subject areas, but they are not good presenters, and are not well matched to their students". All of which, I completely agree, exist - in spite of the GTC's existence - but I doubt to the degree that might be inferred from your post.

But you are totally right in saying that the education of the next generations is something far more important than a matter to be left to politicians ... or to the practitioners themselves.

Best Wishes.

[teamsaint]

The trouble here, teamy, is that we don't know what are "facts and certainties" aren't until somebody who has been taught that they are discovers/works out that they aren't.

A confused syntax, but it's only by learning that people can un-learn. (That's no better, is it?)

its a fair comment, but far too much is passed off as fact, or certainty, or truth, or history, which is in fact just opinion. It may be well researched, or currently acceptable opinion, but it is still just that.

[Pabmusic]

This is the condition in the model funding agreement:

"24A. The Academy Trust shall not make provision in the context of any subject for the teaching, as an evidence-based view or theory, of any view or theory that is contrary to established scientific and/or historical evidence and explanations."

The relevant site is:http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/...ding-agreement

[teamsaint]

This is the condition in the model funding agreement:

"24A. The Academy Trust shall not make provision in the context of any subject for the teaching, as an evidence-based view or theory, of any view or theory that is contrary to established scientific and/or historical evidence and explanations."

The relevant site is:http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/...ding-agreement

or, in laymans language, teach what WE want, the way We want it taught.

Scary, Orwellian stuff.

[VodkaDilc]

Gove showing the door to creationism is a good first step.

Now can we show the door to Gove?

[amateur51]

Gove showing the door to creationism is a good first step.

Now can we show the door to Gove?

I think you've caught the mood of the discussion VodkaDilc

[MrGongGong]

Yes, but if Mr Gove has got it right for once, don't let it give you the impression that the Secretary of State for Free Schools and Academies is anything less that a buffoon.
If the minister in question were what his official title says he is, then perhaps he should set foot in one of the huge majority of schools (i.e. normal LEA controlled state schools) that have not opted out into Gove's wilderness.

indeed
Its really annoying when he says things that one agrees with when the rest of the time he is an absolute idiot !
The proposed changes to ICT are long overdue (shame that theres not much creativity in the National Plan for Music Education though !!!!)

I went to several schools last week
on one day I went to two academy schools
the first , as it is an academy and doesn't need to follow the national curriculum , has NO music teaching at all, no music resources and one teacher who runs a chaotic choir no calmness , no listening , no valuing of music or any arts subjects
the second , also an academy, has invested in great music facilities , great staff, peri teachers, recording school, a REAL PIANO THAT WAS IN TUNE !!!!!,good instruments, a calm atmosphere where students were able to listen and contribute etc etc

this is what the future holds for music in schools , increasing divergence , bad schools getting written off and good ones flourishing AS LONG as the management think it's something worth spending money on............
it made me want to weep , such a waste