The Spectator's view of R3

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  • Serial_Apologist
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 37995

    #16
    I believe that some longer term historical perspective on all this makes more sense of it all.

    "Cultural provision" has long fallen into separate classes - providing, initially, for the two main social classes that existed up to the Indistrial Revolution. For those, historically, with greater leasure time on their hands, domestics and so on, there was always time for the culture we now call "high culture", which includes classical music. For those further down the social scale, entertainment was preferable to inculcating "high culture", in which ideas presented were of a more complex, multi-levelled kind, calling for the asking of questions about the meaning of life, and to whose interpretation of that meaning the "lower orders" were supposed to pay attention.

    The Victorian era's rich and powerful - the time when the working class acquired the mass characteristics that resulted in its potential to disrupt the smooth operation of "progress" - at first, in the later manner of Reith, (well some of them), pursued worthy patronage of arts to the masses beyond the town or country estate, but then went on to recruit the nonconformist orders as agents for defraying the potential for working class "trouble", whether by preaching abstinence or the virtues of patience and the respectability of parliamentary change for the betterment of conditions of life and work. Thus the working class organised its own culture and entertainment as best it could, entrepreneurial initiative on behalf of which being invested in pubs, musical halls, and then cinemas and holiday camps.

    The arrival, post-WW2, post-rationing, of recognition by the Powers that individual purchasing power was now an indispensable part of what kept capitalism ticking over, (previously the working class existed primarily to provide disposable commodities for middle class consumption) did not essentially alter the pattern of differences between upper, middle and working class cultural consumption, for want of a better word; it guilded the lily of homegrown working class culture with the values of American escapism, individualism and standardised goods, as the old communitarian spirit was swept up, sliced up and boxed away in new estates and high rises. The convenient arrival of immigrants to provide cheap labour for the infrastructural sector vital for post-war reconstruction has changed the detail, but not, essentially, the purpose of parcelling and prepackaging the different cultural products and their targetting.

    It is in the interests, I believe, of maintaining (while, importantly, controlling) patterns of what is consumed, that conflicting "interest groups", such as those of us who are in favour of reduced standards of expertise and so on in product (for such it is) specialising in the high arts, and those opposing such changes, continue and argue among ourselves. The shrinking of the "demographic" which holds to Reithian notions of civilisation resting on greater cultural enlightenment is intentional in that it serves to delimit access to those worlds of culture which encourage critical thinking to those sectors of society which were raised in times of hope and progress for all; the age range of the majority left listening to Radio 3 in vain hope that the values it once chapioned can still be rescued is no coincidence, I think.

    S-A

    Comment

    • VodkaDilc

      #17
      Follow-up letters in this week's issue:

      The fall of Radio 3

      Sir: My grateful thanks to Charles Moore (The Spectator’s Notes, 7 January) for pointing out and condemning the gradual dumbing down of Radio 3. The programme which has taught me so much about music over my lifetime has now become frivolous interactive entertainment, with the notable exception of Composer of the Week, which is always instructive. For me the Breakfast Show is the most excruciating, with constant interruptions to refer to the many ways in which the public can get in touch to express views which I, for one, do not wish to hear. What I do wish to hear, and am increasingly prevented from hearing, is the music, intelligently presented.
      Mary Rose Beaumont
      London SW4

      Sir: Thank you for corroborating my views regarding BBC’s Radio 3. For most of my 77 years, I switched on Radio 3 first thing every morning, enjoying the uplift of decent classical music. As Charles Moore so rightly points out, the changes have been ‘by degrees’. First it was the addition of jazz and musicals (intended, no doubt, to steal Jazz FM listeners). Then it imitated Classic FM, playing single movements of symphonies, trios, quartets etc. Now it is as Charles Moore describes. How long will it be before the BBC drops broadcasts of whole concerts, or such excellent programmes as Composer of the Week, on the basis that they are too cerebral for listeners?
      Now I have passed the magic age and I no longer pay a licence fee, I sadly have no means of threatening the BBC. An earlier complaint went unacknowledged. So my mornings are now silent (unless I play my own CDs). Can anything be done?
      Flora Selwyn
      St Andrews, Fife

      Comment

      • french frank
        Administrator/Moderator
        • Feb 2007
        • 30652

        #18
        Thank you for the update, VodkaDilc!
        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

        Comment

        • bwhitjo

          #19
          Charles Moore is right. There is too much hyperbole in the presentation. Everything and everybody has to be fabulous, fantastic (ugh!), wonderful, incredible, and heaven forbid that the listener might actually be left to make up his/her own mind.

          Comment

          • french frank
            Administrator/Moderator
            • Feb 2007
            • 30652

            #20
            Originally posted by bwhitjo View Post
            Charles Moore is right. There is too much hyperbole in the presentation. Everything and everybody has to be fabulous, fantastic (ugh!), wonderful, incredible, and heaven forbid that the listener might actually be left to make up his/her own mind.
            Hello, bwhitjo - and welcome.

            I'm trying to locate a short recording I made a few days ago of an exchange between two R3 presenters, about one minute long. 'Fabulous' occurred four times (twice from each of them) plus two or three more bits of R3 self-adulation.

            R3's Facebook and Twitter pages regularly have middle-aged teenagers whooping Yay! Wow! Awesome! Incredible! to show their admiration and excitement at the Radio 3 Thing. They get younger and younger every day - where will it end!
            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

            Comment

            • VodkaDilc

              #21
              I have only just noticed that the current issue continues the debate - including a plug for FoR3:
              Distress signals

              Sir: Your correspondents who write following Charles Moore’s comments (The Spectator’s Notes, 7 January) should consider joining the organisation Friends of Radio 3, who have an excellent website and are vigorous and effective campaigners.
              Elizabeth Newlands
              London N1

              Sir: I recommend internet radio to those fleeing the dumbing-down of Radio 3. Klassik Radio or Klassik Radio Opera (Germany), M2 Classique (France), Rete Toscana Classique (Italy) are all good options. The best of all is Radio Suisse Classique. On one morning recently we heard Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No. 1, Elgar’s Enigma Variations, sonatas by Scarlatti and Handel’s Water Music, all unabridged and in excellent recordings.
              John Nichols
              Guildford, Surrey

              Comment

              • ahinton
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 16123

                #22
                Well, it's the now almost time-dishonoured "Radio 3 is dumbing down" yet again, is it not? I'm afraid that, whilst R3 still has much of which to be proud, the kinds of thing that Moore rails at are those that turn quite a few people off the station and would incite me to something not far short of fits of homicidal rage were I either (a) prone to such fits or (b) to listen to much of R3's non-Saturday morning content, all of which does it no favours whatsoever - but all that's been discussed here already in various different threads, so I'll say no more.

                As to The Spectator and R3 - well, I have no idea what the editorial policy of the former on the latter might be, but here's an extract from a piece in said former about something broadcast on said latter some time ago:

                But the same question arises that used to be complainingly asked about radical modernism — ‘Is it music?’ For me, the Rasch-evocations fall on the side of real composition, while *** inhabits a no-man’s-land riddled with dead bodies and live bombs that might yet cause damage. And its place in a series of British Music is bizarre if not downright perverse.

                ...

                Comment

                • bwhitjo

                  #23
                  Chat

                  The constant hyperbole of which I complained is all part of the problem of chit-chat to which we are now doomed, and the dreadful habit of dragging in 'guests'. Does it really add to anyone's pleasure to learn that Joe Soap thinks the Eroica symphony is a great/wonderful/fantastic piece, and to hear the history of his life? Does it really make the programme more 'accessible' to add the interactive tosh? R3 gives us an amazing range 0f music — there can be no complaints about that — but it is the footling quality of so much of what goes with it that irritates, ...... and wouldn't it be good if 'presenters' (oh, that they were still just announcers) actually took the trouble to pronounce composers' names correctly?

                  Comment

                  • John Skelton

                    #24
                    Originally posted by bwhitjo View Post
                    and wouldn't it be good if 'presenters' (oh, that they were still just announcers) actually took the trouble to pronounce composers' names correctly?
                    Do they not?

                    Comment

                    • Serial_Apologist
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 37995

                      #25
                      Originally posted by John Skelton View Post
                      Do they not?
                      Well, there you go! - Another aspect of knowledge we are now deprived of by virtue of the falling professionalism of Radio 3 announcements!

                      Comment

                      • VodkaDilc

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                        Well, there you go! - Another aspect of knowledge we are now deprived of by virtue of the falling professionalism of Radio 3 announcements!
                        I listen so rarely these days that I have not noticed - I turn the sound right down between the music. Who do they get wrong? Haydn? Poulenc? Meyerbeer? Purcell? Bernstein (a can of worms?)? - or are there more obvious examples?

                        Comment

                        • Vile Consort
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 696

                          #27
                          Not just composers names but the names of even quite well-known works (e.g. Tannhäuser) get dreadfully mangled. I dread to think how the current generation of presenters might get on with Richard Strauss's opera Feuersnot.

                          There was a time when you could learn quite a lot about composers and their music by listening to R3. These days you can't even learn how to pronounce them properly.

                          Comment

                          • ahinton
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 16123

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Vile Consort View Post
                            Not just composers names but the names of even quite well-known works (e.g. Tannhäuser) get dreadfully mangled. I dread to think how the current generation of presenters might get on with Richard Strauss's opera Feuersnot.

                            There was a time when you could learn quite a lot about composers and their music by listening to R3. These days you can't even learn how to pronounce them properly.
                            To be fair, it's not "all" R3 presenters; some, indeed, go to considerable trouble (as indeed they should) to ensure as far as possible that they get these things right, whereas others' attitude to it is woefully slapdash. I don't give a dirham which is which; I just wish that someone insisted on the appropriate coaching before the kinds of gaffes with which many of us are distressingly familiar get conveyed over the airwaves, that's all.

                            Comment

                            • Panjandrum

                              #29
                              Originally posted by ahinton View Post
                              I don't give a dirham(sic)
                              A Derham?

                              Comment

                              • John Skelton

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Vile Consort View Post
                                Not just composers names but the names of even quite well-known works (e.g. Tannhäuser) get dreadfully mangled. I dread to think how the current generation of presenters might get on with Richard Strauss's opera Feuersnot.

                                There was a time when you could learn quite a lot about composers and their music by listening to R3. These days you can't even learn how to pronounce them properly.
                                I bet there isn't another (?) European country where anyone gets this exercised by improper pronunciation of proper nouns in other peoples' languages.

                                Comment

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