2012 New Year Honours

[MrGongGong]

In the public arena I nominate Brian Gerrish.

Is that the Brian Gerrish who believes that the EU is a conspiracy to create a fascist world government in the style of Hitler by any chance ?

[Lateralthinking1]

frenchfrank

"Being a lesser sort of thief is hardly wonderful" was my general observation for the day. It is not a specific reference. However it is applied, there is a difference between a thief and a "sort of thief" which could apply, for example, to a magpie or someone who takes the last chocolate from a box of Quality Street. More generally, theft in law is "a criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person's consent". For some reason, it appears that hundreds of MPs who took property of ours without our consent are not criminals. I wonder why. Certainly I wouldn't speak to any of them, let alone give them a medal.

Turning to the big question about Russell's "style", the following is enough for me to form a conclusion. It is downright rude, pompous and offensive. And immature, ie.

"Haven't you got something better to do in your sad life? Bit of a spoilsport, aren't you? What a miserable person you must be!......I suggest you get a life and stop whinging!"

PS For the sake of clarity, I have changed the phrase to "lesser sort-of-pickpocket" about which all the most relevant comments above apply. Do feel free to let me know if this is a problem for this forum and if so why. If I don't hear, I will reasonably assume it isn't. Incidentally, wouldn't it be great if 2012 could be a year without moral equivocation? Some hope!

[amateur51]

Which he claims most of his constituents are against on the grounds of enormous costs. In any case, the point was that it's claimed he called a constituent "a rubbish man", artfully inserting the indefinite article to give the impression that he was insulting the constituent. The newspaper report simply quotes his: "Rubbish man!" as a reply to an accusation that he had no interest in the arts. Personally, I would have inserted a comma.Don't know anything about his style. Don't know the man. It is libellous to call him a thief. The sum was relatively small and the circumstances (i.e. the parliamentary rules on claiming mortgage interest) unclear. Quite the opposite. He voted in favour of a referendum on STV rather than for the main motion of a referendum on AV. I think that makes him strongly in favour of a system of PR.

Oh dear - two dogs, one bone

[Nick Armstrong]

Oh dear - two dogs, one bone

Rough! Rough!

[teamsaint]

Is that the Brian Gerrish who believes that the EU is a conspiracy to create a fascist world government in the style of Hitler by any chance ?

if it is, I don't think he would see it that way.And the way that the EU is implementing "austerity measures" on ordinary people,(not on the bankers) he may just be on to something!!

he also campaigns against the dangerous secrecy in the family courts ( a real live issue IMO) and against the NLP techniques employed by Common Purpose, which is a dangerous organisation in the opinion of plenty of people.


Common Purpose is very interesting, especially in the light of things like police corruption scandals, and misuse of public(our) money.

[french frank]

Oh dear - two dogs, one bone

And a Happy New Year to you too, am51!

The only reason I would take up the cudgels for someone like Russell (I mean, apart from him being a LibDem ) is the feeling that 'out there' people are inventing bobmyths on the lines of euromyths. We get half the story which plainly suggests one thing while investigation reveals something quite different. If people (I don't mean Lat, I mean the people publishing the stories elsewhere) are justified in their criticism, let's just have the straight truth. Even if it's not as much fun

[amateur51]

And a Happy New Year to you too, am51!

The only reason I would take up the cudgels for someone like Russell (I mean, apart from him being a LibDem ) is the feeling that 'out there' people are inventing bobmyths on the lines of euromyths. We get half the story which plainly suggests one thing while investigation reveals something quite different. If people (I don't mean Lat, I mean the people publishing the stories elsewhere) are justified in their criticism, let's just have the straight truth. Even if it's not as much fun

And a Happy New Year to you too, french frank

As the ol' Editor said: 'When the facts and the myth are at variance, print THE MYTH!'

[Lateralthinking1]

Completely off-topic footnote - I know Tim Farron is chomping at the bit but the sooner Clegg is replaced by Julian Huppert the better. Support would rocket. Weirdly it isn't ever going to happen.

[MrGongGong]

if it is, I don't think he would see it that way.And the way that the EU is implementing "austerity measures" on ordinary people,(not on the bankers) he may just be on to something!!

he also campaigns against the dangerous secrecy in the family courts ( a real live issue IMO) and against the NLP techniques employed by Common Purpose, which is a dangerous organisation in the opinion of plenty of people.

Common Purpose is very interesting, especially in the light of things like police corruption scandals, and misuse of public(our) money.

from my quick look at who he is I found .............

I think he does see it like that !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcGXkLqEkik

there really isn't a conspiracy you know any more that thinking that there was a secret society at Eton that has planned the "new world order"

[teamsaint]

from my quick look at who he is I found .............

I think he does see it like that !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcGXkLqEkik

there really isn't a conspiracy you know any more that thinking that there was a secret society at Eton that has planned the "new world order"

We really need to question a lot more of what is going on. I don't necessarily believe everything that people like Gerrish talk about.....but i do question what I get told by the people at the top.

I am very wary about people who want to control others, and that is what CP want to do.

As for the new world order and Eton............that may or may not be true, but the big banks are running the world, with the aid of politicians who are snugly in their pockets,(check out the last EU summit and the people running greece and Italy) and that is bad enough !!

[MrGongGong]

Precisely which bit of CP do you object to ?
I don't know a huge amount about them but do know several people who have been on their courses and all have good things to say about it

[teamsaint]

Precisely which bit of CP do you object to ?
I don't know a huge amount about them but do know several people who have been on their courses and all have good things to say about it

CP uses NLP in a systematic way. NLP is designed to reframe how people think. As is well known, the people who attend CP courses tend to be influential and well connected.
CP, which has no official standing other than de facto sanctioning by governments, is avowedly pro EU, and Pro the existing power elites.Lots of our money is being spent on sending public employees on courses that may well "reframe " our leaders thinking in ways that many of us would disapprove of.There are a number of CP "graduates" who have dubious records on employees rights, for instance.

CP graduates may well feel that the courses were beneficial for them, but this is really a circular argument since the purpose of the courses is precisely to mould people to their way of thinking.

Another problem I have with it are the questions of "What is common Purpose"? Whose common purpose?

The thing that perhaps bothers me more than anything though, is the building of networks within our public services and in public life, of people who share a world view and agenda created in an environment which has little do do with accountability, and lots to do with unaccountable power and authority .

A review of her book suggests that our leaders
" need to develop a leadership style that will enable them to lead beyond the traditional boundaries and constraints of the organization".
.
Hmmm....not a prospect I relish .

[Lateralthinking1]

BG - I'd never heard of him but have just sat through half an hour of this nonsense. Some of his observations about the current times are right but the historical reading of it is bonkers.

- Draws spurious link between Marxism and National Socialism, overlooking the fact that Hitler was maniacally against the former and that the latter was never a true ideology. I can't find his pro-Marxism quote from Hitler on Google.

- Misreads post-Marxist theory if he believes it means more dominance rather than an ultimate withering away of the state.

- Contrasts austerity in Britain post war with the wonderful US of A and says this was deliberate, not noting that we were actually bankrupt and that the evil bankers in 2011 emanate from where? Oh yeah. The USA. Sorry. Is the USA good or bad then?

- Says that EU domination has been planned all along, ignoring de Gaulle's wish to keep the British out of the EEC and British reluctance to be in it. So brainwashed have been the Brits that they have been consistent on that point for half a century.

- Labour lurches to the right and he says it is Marxist. Conservatives go to the centre and they are fascists according to him. Ignores Ralph Miliband's own disquiet about his sons' conservatism. Gives no examples of Conservative fascists.

- Ignores twists and turns in policy on race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, most of which don't fit in with his theory. If much of it was planned - and much of what exactly? - we haven't half taken a very circuitous route!

- Ditto immigration, mental health - and of course he brings in the environment. The ogre Porritt. Nice hush puppies though.

That's just for starters. As I say, there is some truth in what he says about today. People will lose their houses to bankers. Globalization is openly pursued for better and worse. Democracy is not what it should be. There are some very right-wing aspects to left wing and liberal thinking of which we were previously unaware. Oxford elites are promoting a form of eugenics. I'm sure of that one. Whether they are fully aware of the consequences of what they are advocating is debatable. The need to opt out of having body parts removed, for example. Yes there are mysterious international organisations and British groups. Some of it is orchestrated. Mainly it is haphazard. "They" must be absolutely brilliant if there is a secret order to the chaos we are all in now.

NLP is ok. It helps a few people slightly. I've got a couple of books on it. I got in the taxi of a hippy once and that guy taught it in his spare time or so he told me. It makes a certain sense. Before my involvement in the biggest public consultation exercise in history, I had just two hours of team training on how to present to the public. It was far less sophisticated than NLP. Pretty half-baked. Mainly it was get out there and if you can try to protect yourselves. How? Erm, you'll find ways. Thanks a lot. As a junior member of staff, and nervous, I ended up on perhaps 20 odd occasions briefing Ministers when others were unavailable or wished to hide behind someone. Those I briefed were very normal/ordinary to a fault. "Don't tell me about the policy. I know it. Tell me whether the breakfast there will be better than last year. I had to go afterwards to a cafe and have a fry-up". That was McNulty. Glenda - "I hope you don't mind if I smoke". They were both nice to me as were others - eg Meacher - before PM Brown.

But has he actually seen the bunch of oddballs we have in Parliament? Does he really think they are the epitome of good presentation? Very few are like Cameron, Clegg and Blair and even they don't convince. He's spent too long in a submarine. Also isn't it funny how it is always those with European sounding names, and were probably picked on at school for them, who have a thing about the EU. Farage looks like a French name. The start of Gerrish looks like Gerry as in German and ends in "sh" which sounds like German. I expect they called him a fascist. I am not dismissing him entirely. More is going on than we know and we don't know who knows. But it isn't clear to me what his policy would amount to, if anything. He looks unwell to me, poor man.

[teamsaint]

I'd never heard of him but have just sat through half an hour of this nonsense. Some of his observations about the current are right but the historical reading of it is bonkers.

If its Gerrish you are referring to,you might usefully look at his work on the family courts. you might find some of his conclusions a step too far, but he is highlighting a system that really is indefensible in the way that it operates.

[MrGongGong]

CP uses NLP in a systematic way. NLP is designed to reframe how people think. As is well known, the people who attend CP courses tend to be influential and well connected.
CP, which has no official standing other than de facto sanctioning by governments, is avowedly pro EU, and Pro the existing power elites.Lots of our money is being spent on sending public employees on courses that may well "reframe " our leaders thinking in ways that many of us would disapprove of.There are a number of CP "graduates" who have dubious records on employees rights, for instance.

CP graduates may well feel that the courses were beneficial for them, but this is really a circular argument since the purpose of the courses is precisely to mould people to their way of thinking.

Another problem I have with it are the questions of "What is common Purpose"? Whose common purpose?

The thing that perhaps bothers me more than anything though, is the building of networks within our public services and in public life, of people who share a world view and agenda created in an environment which has little do do with accountability, and lots to do with unaccountable power and authority .

A review of her book suggests that our leaders
" need to develop a leadership style that will enable them to lead beyond the traditional boundaries and constraints of the organization".
.
Hmmm....not a prospect I relish .

Interesting stuff

Many business people use NLP how is it different with CP ?

and how are the CP networks different from those of the Old Etonians, Masons, CofE, FCS, RC Church, Tufty Club, MCC etc etc ?

the bit of the youtube video I watched conflated being pro EU with being pro a Nazi europe so it's hard to take the man seriously