Originally posted by MrGongGong
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In the words of a large poster hanging in the hallway of some gay friends in Bristol in the early 1970s: "God Save Our Queens!"
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I don't disagree with many of your sentiments and observations regarding modern society, Lat, but I was merely defending the BBC against unfair accusations of being obsequious towards the now very elderly DofE.
There was/is absolutely no evidence for this, and this sort of stuff is peddled by frustrated UK republicans who appear quite unable to accept that, rightly or wrongly, the people of this country are overwhelmingly in favour of retaining the monarchy. 'Democracy' and 'the people' are terms republicans use a lot, but swiftly ignore when it suits their already doomed-to-fail agenda.
My other point was if members wish to point to a truly 'obsequious' society/media, The Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea seems the most glaringly obvious candidate?
Don't you agree, Lat?Comment
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what nonsenseOriginally posted by scottycelt View Post
It's hardly an "unfair" criticism when the BBC is so unremittingly obsequious towards the royal family
whether people would "vote" for them is really neither here nor there
though (and i'm in no way a supporter of North Korea !!!) if you really want the whole ceremonial thing forget the trooping of the colour or the opening of the olympics , the North Koreans make the British Army look like a load of drunk boy scouts !Comment
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Well, you've kind of confirmed my point about many republicans actual concern for 'the people' and democracy', Mr GG!Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
At least you're honest ... stuff 'the people' and 'democracy', let's just install our precious republic!
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Scottycelt - Yes, broadly I do. I used to be neutral about the Royals and am still not the kind to join a street party. However, in the last three years I have become convinced that they are a necessary "check and balance" on less than democratic Government. We have been very fortunate in having had Elizabeth. She has demonstrated the importance of loyal service and continuity in what is now a fickle and changeable world of relationships, both in private and public affairs. She has also understood the importance of possible intervention as a stronger tool than overt interference and teaches us a lot about responsibility.
Whether we will be so fortunate in the future is unlikely but it still looks solid enough to me. Certainly on many key issues, and this partially emerges from the Commonwealth, the Royals have always been slightly ahead of the game than our politicians and more in tune with the general public. For all of his ways, our next monarch is sound in that respect and the one after him perhaps more so. When their Pan-European heritage is also taken into account, I do think they could be vital in diplomacy should we ever leave the EU. We need something other than the business model for ongoing harmony. The DoE is not exactly my kind of person but his principal contribution to this country has been in his support to the Queen. I wouldn't wish to underestimate that role and I don't think that the coverage of his ill health has been excessive. The tone of it has seemed about right overall.
North Korea by definition is difficult. We are caught between observation of the propaganda imposed on its people and an inability to assess the accuracy of the information given to us about the regime. We need to balance our abhorrence for what we are told of the way it is run and respect for the emotions of its people who always seem in the circumstances to have tremendous dignity. Where there is nationalism, and the death of a leader, there will always be genuine grief. Oddly, I am also reminded of the sort of scenes that were witnessed with the Beatles. Apparent hysteria doesn't require very much and isn't always inflicted. Arguably it is most often seen at the point of change, particularly where rigid formal structures wobble a bit inside and out.
I am fascinated by the culture of North Korea. The ability of individual musicians is often staggering and I just don't think that a liberal society would be able to deliver the sort of choreographed mass spectacle we see. I find it impressive rather than creepy. You can end up thinking that there has to be a middle way between looseness and rigidity. But then we hear about babies being "selected out" because of deformity and what are effectively gulags for adults. That would be a terrible price to pay for it and it makes me shudder. Being so insular, isolated and different it does provide an extraordinary example of contrast and compare. We can learn a lot about our country from it, I think, and the way in which regimes by necessity work more generally. - Lat.Last edited by Guest; 31-12-11, 03:25.Comment
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Well, we don't have a "democratic" government either as most people who voted voted for something other than what we haveOriginally posted by scottycelt View PostWell, you've kind of confirmed my point about many republicans actual concern for 'the people' and democracy', Mr GG!
At least your honest ... stuff 'the people' and 'democracy', let's just install our precious republic!
I don't have a "precious republic" but am more than a little sick of the BBC toadying to the Royal Family
The Andy Kershaw programmes on North Korea a few years ago were fascinating , would be interesting to hear them again if anyone knows where to find them ?Comment
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Happy to oblige - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p005y2n0Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostComment
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Well, any republican who despises royalty is naturally bound to say that, isn't he/she?Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
Can you just imagine the coverage we might have got from the media if, say, Michelle Obama had been taken ill and ended up in hospital? Officially, she is no more elected or powerful than the DofE but she is a republican (small 'c') symbol of state, The First Lady, and I'm willing to bet the media coverage would have been every bit (probably a lot more) 'obsequious', even though she has absolutely nothing to do with the UK. Not that I would dream of complaining about that as Michelle is a fascinating figure in herself and appears to be both brainy and beautiful (which is surely more than can be said for the ever-populist Barack who sometimes appears dwarfed both physically and mentally in her presence).
Personally, I rather think the BBC 'toadies' to downright irritating and often suffocating Political Correctness much more than it does the Royals, but, then again, given my own outlook, I would rather think that, wouldn't I?
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