The treating of tradesmen

[Sydney Grew]

Sorry I forgot the paper-boy in the original posting - now set right.

In the '-forties of the last century both the baker and the milkman used horse-drawn carts, and they delivered directly to a hatch built into the kitchen wall. A convenience unmatched to-day! (It was in the hatch that the annual presents were left.) And of course ninety per centum of the motors that now fill even the narrowest of Britain's by-ways are being used for simple "shopping" journeys unnecessary in olden times - so much waste!

I remember also that on days when droppings eventuated the weather-beaten old gardener would rush out into the road with his bucket and be happy for the rest of the day!

[Mary Chambers]

Where my grandmother lived in the 1940s, milk was delivered by horse-drawn cart, and ladled from churns into a jug on the doorstep. There were still horse-drawn milk deliveries in the 60s in some places.

[salymap]

We lived in London until I was 7 because of my dad's work. I remember horse drawn milk carts, coal carts and the knife grinder, and cats' meat men with slices of meat on a stick. This would be the middle thirties. [And the gardeners rushing out after the horses left a gift for them }

I forgot to say earlier I pay my next door neighbour/gardener VERY well all the year round so don't give extra at Christmas, as he is much better off than Iam and would be insulted.

[scottycelt]

A postwoman, dustwoman, milkwoman, or gardenwoman have never been seen or heard of in our area so how can I possibly tip them when, to all intents and purposes, they don't even exist ... ?

I've also never come across a 'non-gender specific' person, but I suppose you get all sorts in London ...

[ahinton]

OK, but this is surely all supposed to be about the here and now and, in particular, people's attitude to tipping those who provided services to one's home. As I mentioned, only two such are provided to mine - the postal service and the garbage collection service; the standard of the former is so parlously poor (albeit through no obvious fault of the delivery staff, except perhaps that it has long struck me as rather odd that the mail always arrives much later when the usual delivery person does it than when it's done by someone else) that no tip is merited and that of the latter so good that it's well worth it, but I've only ever been able to provide such a tip when I've actually seen those who do the work, which is very rare. For the record, no one delivers milk or newspapers around these parts, I grind my own knives, thanks, I woldn't give coal house room and sadly I no longer have any cats to feed; I do occasonally see people on horseback on the side road nearest to where I live, but they're never "drawing" anything.

[Serial_Apologist]

Of these, the postman frequently mis-delivers the mail, and leaves the premises littered with red elastic bands.

Evidently this mutation has now spread beyond London, then. Some sort of government announcement was made about 6 months ago to the effect that dropping the abovementioned constituted littering and was therefore a crime. At least I have not needed to go our and buy rubber bands of any sort now for probably 3 years.

[ahinton]

A postwoman, dustwoman, milkwoman, or gardenwoman have never been seen or heard of in our area so how can I possibly tip them when, to all intents and purposes, they don't even exist ... ?

Quite obviously, I did not suggest that you could; my remark was clearly directed at the specific terminology used by SG in his opening post which (a) took no account of any females anywhere who provide the services to which he refers and (b) included the rather odd word "dustman" so, if mine is a "dusty" answer, so be it, I fear!

[Serial_Apologist]

A postwoman, dustwoman, milkwoman, or gardenwoman have never been seen or heard of in our area so how can I possibly tip them when, to all intents and purposes, they don't even exist ... ?

I've also never come across a 'non-gender specific' person, but I suppose you get all sorts in London ...

Yes scotty we get women in London

[scottycelt]

Quite obviously, I did not suggest that you could; my remark was clearly directed at the specific terminology used by SG in his opening post which (a) took no account of any females anywhere who provide the services to which he refers and (b) included the rather odd word "dustman" so, if mine is a "dusty" answer, so be it, I fear!

Surely the exception only proves the rule, ahinton !

Therefore, I consider Mr Grew's general terminology to be perfectly acceptable for use on this forum, though I have absolutely no opinion, considered or otherwise, on the particular term 'dustmen', or 'dustwoman' or 'dustperson', for that matter.

After all, like garbage, we all turn into the powdery stuff in the end ...

[Bryn]

Surely the exception only proves the rule, ahinton !

Therefore, I consider Mr Grew's general terminology to be perfectly acceptable for use on this forum, though I have absolutely no opinion, considered or otherwise, on the particular term 'dustmen', or 'dustwoman' or 'dustperson', for that matter.

After all, like garbage, we all turn into the powdery stuff in the end ...

The refuse collectors here (both sexes are represented) have managed to split both sides of my wheelie bin, so they will not be getting any gratuities this year.

[Don Petter]

I wouldn't give coal house room

Nor I. We keep it the cellar, with the wine.

[scottycelt]

Yes scotty we get women in London

I think non gender-specific was the term which was actually meant to be used, S_A ...

[ahinton]

Surely the exception only proves the rule, ahinton !

The notion that exceptions can or do prove rules is as outmoded and misleading as some of the terminology used in the opening salvo of this thread! In any event, what makes you assume (as you appear to do) that women working fulfilling any of the rôles mentioned is "exceptional"?

Therefore, I consider Mr Grew's general terminology to be perfectly acceptable for use on this forum, though I have absolutely no opinion, considered or otherwise, on the particular term 'dustmen', or 'dustwoman' or 'dustperson', for that matter. After all, like garbage, we all turn into the powdery stuff in the end ...

Well, I think it inadequate for the reason that I mentioned and, although you omit to comment on my point about the term "dustmen", it remains an inaccurate term to denote the work that refuse collectors do, in that they collet the general detritus that their customers put out for them to collect, rather than "dust" which, as I mentioned, is "collected by the vacuum cleaner.

[ahinton]

Nor I. We keep it the cellar, with the wine.

So is your cellar not part of your house, then? How unfortunate! What's even more unfortunate is that you're not using that part of it that's occupied by coal with more wine, which would surely be a far better use of the space concerned!

[VodkaDilc]

I have always given something to the postwoman, milkman and paperlady, (either monetary or liquid) and this morning I gave something to the dustmen for the first time in years. All of those came through snow and blizzards through the worst of last winter's weather and deserve an annual reminder of our gratitude. (The first three rarely have a day off and we know each other by name.)

And something extra for hairdresser and Gym instructor, perhaps?