The Wine List

[marthe]

Marthe ... I'm going to be very rude here. Can you recommend a Californian wine that is quirky. Sad to say, I just find too much of this produce balnd and redolent of Ernest & Gallo, or whatever they're called.

SHB: I'll have to confer with #1 son about quirky California wines. The stuff he brings home (and he hasn't been back east in a while) is not sold in the the package store (what we call an off-licence in New England...packie for short) and we can't buy booze at the supermarket in RI. You're right about Ernest and Julio Gallo. They're one of the biggest wine producers in CA. New York state is known for wine production also. We even have a few wineries in Little Rhody. Chilean wine isn't too bad. We do stay away from the stuff with yellow kangaroos on the bottle (Yellow Tail) an Aussie label. South African wines are also sold here.

As for "wife beater" beer, it's not what it used to be. We can get wonderful Trappist beers with quirky names, strong stuff that's above 10% alcohol content. This is definitely sipping beer, usually served in a tulip-shaped glass. Duvel and Morte Subite are pretty well known but we can find small label-stuff that's mighty tasty (Maredsous). There's one brew pub here (Coddington Brewery) and an independent brewery and distillery that makes a beer called Newport Storm and a rum called Thomas Tew (after the Newport pirate).

[Richard Tarleton]

It's been a while since I bought wine in a supermarket - too much of a lottery, I found, unless you really put some time into the research, or you stick to the better known and more mass-produced brands. Plus the wine is not exactly sold in optimum conditions - the more expensive bottles near the top, standing up, closer to the heat and lights....

A few years ago I started buying wine from Laithwaites, and find if you play your cards right you actually don't need to spend any more per bottle, unless you want to. If you take advantage of the deals they are actually much better value than the supermarkets. They've done the legwork for you, and have relationships with interesting, often small family, vineyards.... For an annual subscription of - I think it's currently £30 - you get an interesting pair of extra bottles to try with every order, free. If you order a case a month for a year, that's 24 bottles for £30 - you do the math.

Life is too short to drink cheap wine!

[Globaltruth]

I have to mention The Wine Society at this point - almost a co-operative...(which is a good thing in my book)

The supermarket buyers are great at finding value, but there's a world of wine out there and I'd rather not be constrained by their limits.

Difficult therefore to recommend a single wine (although it would be very interesting to do a blind tasting of their Rioja Crianza against some of the others mentioned) - but, as with Laithwaites, after a one-off share purchase cost of £40, the benefits are many, mainly expressed in great wines at low prices.

There are also a couple of independent wine sellers in these parts who have been known to open a bottle or two to assist with the selection process....

[vinteuil]

I have to mention The Wine Society ....

Yes indeed. I've been with the Wine Society since 1971 (good Lord - forty years! ) and find it very satisfactory - for a diverse range of wines for every day drinking, for wines you're unlikely to find at the supermarket or local offie, for fine wines and exceptional wines, for their frequent special offers and bin-ends, and for the chance to buy en primeur when in funds...

After the one-off membership fee, there is no subscription to pay, no obligation to buy, delivery is free when you buy twelve bottles (any twelve, mix and match as you like) - and I have found their service to be irreproachable and friendly...

[old khayyam]

In defence of Stella

Indeed a great idea for a thread. Good also to see we are getting the lowest point out of the way early, namely that of lagers. On which point i have this to say: Stella Artois has always had a strength of around 5% (sometimes 5.1%-5.2%).

Hasnt anyone noticed that practically all tinned lagers are 5%? Fosters, Heineken, Holsten, Kronenberg, Budweiser, etc..all 5%.

Special Brew, Kestrel, Tennants Super, etc, are all nearly twice the strength at 9%, are not served in pubs, and can be seen in the hands of the dysfunctional underclasses every day. Yet Stella gets called 'wife beater'.

No serious wife-beater or other lowlife would give Stella the time of day.

I actually find Stella to be the most refined of lagers. It has a sweetness that no other lager has which makes it much more palatable. I imagine this to be due to the quality of the hops used - nipping the fresh green buds as soon as they ripen - as it always tastes refreshing, and demands to be poured into a glass.

If it wasnt for Stella, i wouldnt drink lager at all. By which i mean, the only lager i deign to drink is Stella.


I'm getting thirsty now

[ahinton]

Hic! SmB! Of course, moderation in all thingszzz... Blimey, next we'll be quoting James Joyce, and stuff.

Intersting Food Prog, R4, other day, on gin. Now, gin is deadly when it's rubbish and cheap but those Botanicals, WOW! It's like when you pound juniper, oh, the whiff of it!

I missed that programme, unfortunately, so I must try to find time to get to it on Listen Again. Your (not so very) local Waitrose in Y Fenni sports a very respectable selection of decent gins that has improved yet again of late since the store reopened following a major refurbishment - and a nearby hostelry, The Hardwick (excellent food) does likewise. I have to say, however, that it's as easy to spoil a good gin with an unsuitable tonic as it is to ruin a decent malt with rubbishy hard tap-water; for me, it has to be non-slimline Sch(you-know-who) or nothing (and, since neat gin, however fine, is not on my agenda, "nothing" isn't an option). There are some quite decent gins made locally to you and to me - Penderryn (Brecon gin), Williams Chase, Pullings - although the second of these is quite horrendously expensive.

But, interesting as this digression is, shouldn't we be getting back to vinous matters? California's been mentioned by a US based member but a particular problem with US wine over in Britain is that most people have allowed themselves to be led to believe that it almost all comes from California with a few also-rans from Washington State and Oregon, a misapprehension splendidly demolished for me when staying in a hotel in Stanford, CT where the almost exclusively American wine list sported some splendid examples from around 20 states including that northern one commonly known as Canada (where some reasonably respectable wines are produced, albeit in relatively small quantities, not only in Ontario but also in British Columbia and I'm not only talking Ice Wine here); we rarely see most of these in Britain and, given the plethora of easily available wines from the Antipodes, South Africa and South America in UK, I've long wondered why this is so.

As it happens, my resolve never to drink any beers or ciders (I simply cannot bear them!) prompted an organist colleague to remark that my move to Herefordshire, however temporarily, would be rather pointless as its wonderful real ales and ciders would be wasted on me...

[greenilex]

The Yanks I know are probably buying up the local good stuff without prompting... a worldwide habit, don'cherknow.

Perlease don't be rude about cider. It shouldn't be muddled with branded lagers.

I have an ancient empty bottle of Vacqueyras in front of me as I write, with a candle in it.

[Stillhomewardbound]

[IN DEFENCE OF STELLA]

I know much better contenders for the wife-beater award starting with Charlie aka. Carlsberg ... probably the vilest larger in the world. Nor do I have any time for the insipids ... Fosters and Carling.


Back to the wines ... I've treated myself to a case from an online supplier this year, 'Naked'. A mixed case of reds.

I shall be homo alone this Christmas so in need of fortified solace.

[ahinton]

Perlease don't be rude about cider. It shouldn't be muddled with branded lagers.

I've neither been "rude about cider" nor "muddled" it "with branded lagers" or indeed anything else for that matter; I've merely stated, truthfully, that I cannot personally abide any of these things.

[vinteuil]

Muscat de Beaumes with ... foie gras is like travelling to Heaven with the Angels on your wings, .

Anna - I adore the combination of foie gras with a good sweet wine - and am glad you do too - but - I thought - you were someone who - for good reasons - couldn't bear the production methods required for foie gras???

[Nick Armstrong]

Anna - I adore the combination of foie gras with a good sweet wine - and am glad you do too - but - I thought - you were someone who - for good reasons - couldn't bear the production methods required for foie gras???

May I commend my learnéd friend on his devastating cross-examination of the witness

The witness will answer the question!!

[Anna]

Anna - I adore the combination of foie gras with a good sweet wine - and am glad you do too - but - I thought - you were someone who - for good reasons - couldn't bear the production methods required for foie gras???

My Dear Vints - lips that touch foie gras will never touch mine! No, I only know that because it is a favourite dining combination for one of my brothers and he described it so! I refuse to eat it. But, as for dessert (sweet) wines, although I favour Muscat de Beaumes de Venise, Brown Brothers (Australian) is very good with aromas of orange blossom, fresh citrus and spice, it seems very few people indulge in these wines (they don't come cheap and usually in half bottles but perfect for special occasions, such as Christmas) I wonder if anyone has any more recommendations as I have yet to purchase any?

Edit: Does this witness statement satisfy the Learned Judge?

[Nick Armstrong]

The foie gras - sauternes (or similar) combo is unbelievably good. One of the Quart-de-Chaumes - the sweet whites from a little triangular micro-climate in the Loire valley - is an excellent alternative.

I was also totally seduced the other week when a friend served up a delicious cauliflower and blue cheese soup started, accompanied by a chilled amontillado sherry. A magical combination.

To get down to specifics, I am mainly a red wine drinker. It takes something special in the white department to make me enthuse. One such recently (a suggestion by the sommelier at Gordon Ramsay's main restaurant) is the fantastically good value Verdejo from a Spanish winemaker called José Pariente. At £7 - £8 a bottle, this is as delicious a white wine as I have ever had.

http://www.vinissimus.co.uk/en/vinos...FYEmtAodEnarWA

[Flay]

It satisfies me, thank goodness. I had just started reading this thread from the beginning and was shocked to read what you had said about drinking with foie gras. I was just about to interrogate you about this suspected hypocrisy, but vinteuil had beaten me to it.

[Nick Armstrong]

My Dear Vints - lips that touch foie gras will never touch mine! No, I only know that because it is a favourite dining combination for one of my brothers and he described it so! I refuse to eat it. But, as for dessert (sweet) wines, although I favour Muscat de Beaumes de Venise, Brown Brothers (Australian) is very good with aromas of orange blossom, fresh citrus and spice, it seems very few people indulge in these wines (they don't come cheap and usually in half bottles but perfect for special occasions, such as Christmas) I wonder if anyone has any more recommendations as I have yet to purchase any?

Edit: Does this witness statement satisfy the Learned Judge?

The witness side-stepped the issue very neatly and indeed would she like to repair to the judicial lodgings for a swift Chateau d'Yquem after the Court rises?