The rain in Spain

[Guest]

The Sunday Times leads on Foreign Office contingency plans to evacuate Brits from Spain and Portugal if their economies collapse. The Royal Navy will be sent to collect them, as expats probably won't be able to access their money in Spanish banks. i imagne we're talking tens of thousands of people.

Is this just sensible or is it alarmist?

[Anna]

That's so funny. They chose to settle there, live cheaply, and, they get their Winter Fuel Allowance don't they and laugh whilst baking and we freeze? Personally I'd chuck them them off on Gibraltar!

Are you sure this is the The Times and not The Mail?

[teamsaint]

Well its certainly not alarmist.
The credit agencies, banks, and speculators really have pushed the European economies to the brink of calamity.

Rescuing expats from the peninsula might well be the least of our problems.

Incidentally, i have a fair degree of sympathy for the poorer expats.

A lots of them bought the dream of a better, warmer retirement after a lifetime of graft in a country which keeps most of its best opportunities for a small, favoured class.
after a lifetime working on some bleak industrial estate, its not surprising that a flat in spain with a handy swimming pool looks like a tempting option.

[Petrushka]

Well its certainly not alarmist.
The credit agencies, banks, and speculators really have pushed the European economies to the brink of calamity.

Rescuing expats from the peninsula might well be the least of our problems.

Incidentally, i have a fair degree of sympathy for the poorer expats.

A lots of them bought the dream of a better, warmer retirement after a lifetime of graft in a country which keeps most of its best opportunities for a small, favoured class.
after a lifetime working on some bleak industrial estate, its not surprising that a flat in spain with a handy swimming pool looks like a tempting option.

I do agree with you here!

I consider this to be normal contingency planning by the FO who I'm sure would also have plans in hand for a number of scenarios ranging from best-case to worst-case. The one mentioned by the ST I would consider as falling somewhere to the worst end of middle. On the domestic front, I would expect plans to be well in hand in the event of serious social unrest. Last summer's riots were but a foretaste of what we can expect and I would hope that, in the well-worn phrase, lessons have been learned.

The middle of next year could be a dangerous period in Europe as the Euro implodes with consequent multiple bank collapses and social unrest

[Ferretfancy]

I've yet to see a single prediction made by the Sunday Times that has come to pass.

[Mahlerei]

If it does come to pass, and the euro implodes, the unrest won't stop at Calais. Indeed, it will make last August's riots look like a Sunday school picnic.

Be careful what you wish for :)

[french frank]

If it does come to pass, and the euro implodes, the unrest won't stop at Calais. Indeed, it will make last August's riots look like a Sunday school picnic.

Be careful what you wish for :)

One could speculate as to where 'rioting' might start. There will be those who are already struggling who may fall into deeper poverty and debt, there will be those who were well off and who are ruined, and there will be the rest of us, the majority I imagine, who will have to put up with lower living standards, possibly even a bit of hardship. I wonder where the protests would start?

[Lateralthinking1]

I would think there are three groups:

- Eastern European countries as they are the most recent converts and are not averse to uprising
- Countries with tensions with neighbours - Greece etc
- Countries with huge wealth divisions regionally - Italy etc

But on post 1, when is a Spanish bank a Spanish bank? Santander?

[Petrushka]

If it does come to pass, and the euro implodes, the unrest won't stop at Calais. Indeed, it will make last August's riots look like a Sunday school picnic.

Be careful what you wish for :)

I would hope that no-one is wishing for this to happen but we now hear that a solution to the problems of the Euro is now beyond reach. The staggering ineptitude of European politicians as exemplified this past week in Paris and London beggars belief and bears comparison with 1914. The UK population at large, concerned more with who wins Strictly Come Dancing, seem to believe that this issue starts at Calais and is nothing to do with us. There is a rude awakening coming and by next summer it will be upon us.

[Lateralthinking1]

I feel that we need to see politicians adopting more subtle positions. Only now do I realise that I cannot think of one pro EU MP who ever said that the Euro was a bad idea generally, nor because of the need to talk up confidence is anyone in favour of the EU able to say it now. In fact, it isn't clear to me whether most here still believe in it or not.

Meanwhile UKIP etc don't quite explain what might happen to what were our nationalised industries, if we left the EU. Most of them are now in Continental hands. You can add to that the airports and many banks. Where are all the facts?

Quite clearly, this Euro experiment created a league in which the likes of Man Utd played Accrington Stanley under the same rules. Somehow it was supposed to work. Goodness knows how. My reading of it is that politicians can be naive and greedy but were misled by economists.

And Harold Macmillan was absolutely right about the family silver. Many of us knew that when he said it.

We need to get back to smaller more flexible units within alliances and rein in rampant capitalism to something far more modest as it was when we were all born so that it is unequivocally a servant to social democracy.

[Biffo]

I seem to recall reading that there are some two hundred thousand British people living in the Malaga area alone. What possible contingency plan could be made for evacuating so many people?

Presumably Santander (the bank) is stable as our Government allowed it to buy two failed banks that had been taken into public ownership or am I being naive? I suppose there is the possibility that it could be overwhelmed by a total collapse of the banking system. On the other hand Spain does seem to be making some effort to to overcome its economic difficulties. I get the impression Italy is just sitting back and waiting for the cash to flow from the so-called Stabilistaion Fund.

[Mahlerei]

I think we in the UK are as susceptible to civil disobedience as anywhere else, given the deep cynicism about politics and the unwise campaign against the banks. The veneer of civility is very thin, and a wider collapse - or hint of it - could spark trouble very quickly. I daresay there are elements in any society that would help precipitate such action, as happened - to some extent at least - in August.

Several times in Africa we wer caught up in the middle of insurrections, and targets usually include state and other institutions that are loathed for one reason or another. The opportunistic elements go for banks, shops and general looting. It's very threatening and something I hope we won't see here.

[Serial_Apologist]

I think we in the UK are as susceptible to civil disobedience as anywhere else, given the deep cynicism about politics and the unwise campaign against the banks. The veneer of civility is very thin, and a wider collapse - or hint of it - could spark trouble very quickly. I daresay there are elements in any society that would help precipitate such action, as happened - to some extent at least - in August.

Several times in Africa we wer caught up in the middle of insurrections, and targets usually include state and other institutions that are loathed for one reason or another. The opportunistic elements go for banks, shops and general looting. It's very threatening and something I hope we won't see here.

It would have been nice if the bank workers had just downed computers, here and in America, and refused to implement under orders the unaffordable policies and packages that have got the global economy into the mess it is now in. Where were the whistle blowers when we needed them? I'm talking the average bank clerk on non-astronomical salary. A bit of workers' control, not rioting and mindless destruction, is what is needed, and political and trade union leadership to that end.

[Petrushka]

It would have been nice if the bank workers had just downed computers, here and in America, and refused to implement under orders the unaffordable policies and packages that have got the global economy into the mess it is now in. Where were the whistle blowers when we needed them? I'm talking the average bank clerk on non-astronomical salary. A bit of workers' control, not rioting and mindless destruction, is what is needed, and political and trade union leadership to that end.

How can the 'average bank clerk' have much influence over the Fred Goodwin's of this world? Downing computers is all very well but there would be plenty more people to fill their shoes once they were sacked. Political and trade union leadership has been weighed in the balance and found wanting throughout the Western world.

[Lateralthinking1]

What are we to make of the fact that the highest home ownership in the world (97%) is in the EU member country of..........