Pronunciation watch

[french frank]

Andrew Marr this morning insists on stressing St Augustine on his first syllable - Christopher de Hamel tries to remember to defer to the presenter, but sometimes forgets and stresses the second syllable instead (as is the usual way, isn't it?)

Not sure. I'm thinking of the German song, Ach du lieber AU-gustin. But fairly sure my brother (who would know) stresses the second syll.

[jean]

The first syllable would be stressed in French too, wouldn't it? But we're English!

It's an age-old dispute, apparently.

[gurnemanz]

I think I say it either way, but possibly influenced by the Bob Dylan song, which is the main context in which the word would pass my lips, I probably tend to say "Augustine".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Surely his mates would have called him "Gus", not "Au"?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The first syllable would be stressed in French too, wouldn't it? But we're English!

Well, some of us. . .

[french frank]

The first syllable would be stressed in French too, wouldn't it? But we're English!

In French it would retain the stress of the original Latin form, Au-gu-stí-nus; so Au-gu-stín, final syllable.

The only 'professional' English pronunciation (don't know about American) I've heard is Uh-GUS-tinn, but the alternative form 'Austin' appears to have come from AUg-us-tin.

[kernelbogey]

Mulling the idea that when spoken as a first name in English it's Au-GUS-tin (pretty rare as a name these days).

But when it's the saint, the added word becomes in effect the first syllable of a new word, that is Saint-AU-gus-tin: so moving the stress forward to the 'second' syllable.

[jean]

Probably the most common use of the word in ordinary conversation these days is to refer to a church dedicated to the saint, and I don't think I've ever heard the stress on the Au-.

And see my links above!

.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Except that most people don't do that. See my links above!

No - I can't remember (if that is of any merit) ever hearing any discussion of The Vision of St Augustine; it's always (again AFAIR) St Augustine.

Augustine is, as kernelbogey suggests, so rare to be unknown these days - slightly more familiar in "Augustus", as in Gwen's brother; and in my Great-Uncle Gus's first name. In thirty-three years' teaching, I only ever encountered one poor lad with the name - thankfully, as a middle name. (Can't remember any "Augustinas" at all.)

[french frank]

Probably the most common use of the word in ordinary conversation these days is to refer to a church dedicated to the saint, and I don't think I've ever heard the stress on the Au-.

I would agree with that: the saint's (or saints') name is Sint AuGUSTin. But that doesn't mean one wouldn't ever hear Saint AU-gustin (and cf my comment about Austin).

I think we're very tolerant in such matters. As English speakers are more 'tolerant' (or lax) when pronouncing foreign languages

[kernelbogey]

I was mulling what I do. Running the alternatives in my head, it seemed to me that the differences I suggested above were just what come naturally to me. I make no proscription, though I suppose my instincts are possibly learned.

[jean]

I think we're very tolerant in such matters...

What interests me is that I often hear conversations where speakers stick to their own pronunciation, either to assert that theirs is correct, or because they haven't noticed!

That was why I posted about this originally - one speaker in the broadcast deferred to another's pronunciation, but kept forgetting and reverting to his own.

[jean]

(Can't remember any "Augustinas" at all.)

They'd have to have a dual stress on first and thisr syllables, wouldn't they?

I've never come across it in use. The Tinas one meets are more likely to be Christinas than anything else.

[french frank]

though I suppose my instincts are possibly learned.

Learn'd or learnèd?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

They'd have to have a dual stress on first and thisr syllables, wouldn't they?

Never having encountered one, I don't know - when I've read the name (and, I think, only in the context of "Aunt Augusta") I've only "heard" it as an anapest - the one accent on the "tin" (pronounced "teen"). There's also Augusta - which, in every production of Earnest I've ever seen is accented on the second syllable.

I've never come across it in use. The Tinas one meets are more likely to be Christinas than anything else.

Indeed - or, nowadays, just "Tina".