Pronunciation watch

[gurnemanz]

They were, after all, invented in England and first manufactured in Bermondsey by messrs Peak Frean. I think I first learnt this from GM Trevelyan's "Garibaldi and the Thousand".

Mention of Peek Frean and Bermondsey makes me think of the nearby and slightly similarly named Pearce Duff - legendary purveyor of blancmange whose factory, I remember, could be glimpsed from the train on the way into London Bridge Station.

[vinteuil]

That is what I meant: when I were nobbut a lad, I never heard the word pronounced any other way than with the emphasis posseted on the second syllable, not unlike the "weighting" on "Assisi".

.. ah, comprendo.

I wonder if when you were nobbut a lad you actually had access to an earlier 'authentick' English pronunciation - those who favoured 'Leghorn', 'Keen-ya', and the 'Maylay States' etc. I remember being chided by a stately great-aunt for using a modern German-ish pronunciation of the guide 'Baedeker' - she said it had always been bay-decker and she wasn't having any of this modern by-decker rubbish.

[french frank]

... ah, 'squashed flies'?

Memories, memories...

Oh, I SAY!!!

[french frank]

I remember being chided by a stately great-aunt for using a modern German-ish pronunciation of the guide 'Baedeker' - she said it had always been bay-decker and she wasn't having any of this modern by-decker rubbish.

I've always said BAY-decker. Checking online the first three said that, the fourth said BY-decker. Am I missing some point here?

[P. G. Tipps]

BBC Radio 4 is currently trailing a feature about an apparently famous author called Robert 'Lewis' Stevenson.

Never heard of the dude, was he an American ... ?

[Bryn]

BBC Radio 4 is currently trailing a feature about an apparently famous author called Robert 'Lewis' Stevenson.

Never heard of the dude, was he an American ... ?

Hmm, since he was Christened "Robert Lewis Balfour Stevenson" I think Radio 4 may well have the advantage here.

[gurnemanz]

I've always said BAY-decker. Checking online the first three said that, the fourth said BY-decker. Am I missing some point here?

Ein Pedant schreibt: The pronunciation "BAY" would be an Anglicised diphthong which would not be used in the original German. "ae" is pronounced the same as "ä", which is an "e" sound as in eg Furtwängler. In Baedecker both vowel sounds would be roughly the same - bed ecker. German Wiki gives [ˈbɛːdɛkɐ].

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ein Pedant schreibt: The pronunciation "BAY" would be an Anglicised diphthong which would not be used in the original German. "ae" is pronounced the same as "ä", which is an "e" sound as in eg Furtwängler. In Baedecker both vowel sounds would be roughly the same - bed ecker. German Wiki gives [ˈbɛːdɛkɐ].

So one should bedeck oneself with a Baedeker? Many thanks, gurne - I have always been a "by"-er: and have been for several decades. (Which word I don't pronounce as if something was rotten.)

[french frank]

Ein Pedant schreibt: The pronunciation "BAY" would be an Anglicised diphthong which would not be used in the original German. "ae" is pronounced the same as "ä", which is an "e" sound as in eg Furtwängler. In Baedecker both vowel sounds would be roughly the same - bed ecker. German Wiki gives [ˈbɛːdɛkɐ].

ferney has responded to my point: BAY-decker, not BY-decker, as vinteuil mentioned. I was less pedantically concerned about the exact pronunciation of BÄ- as about the suggested BY-.

[Padraig]

BBC Radio 4 is currently trailing a feature about an apparently famous author called Robert 'Lewis' Stevenson.

Never heard of the dude, was he an American ... ?

There was a well known American dude called Louis, which Armstrong himself pronounced Lewis.

[ahinton]

There was a well known American dude called Louis, which Armstrong himself pronounced Lewis.

There was a Yank Dude-le called Lewis
Whose name was pronounced not the trues(t),
So Satchmo folk called him
(or Pops, which enthralled him)
Though quite why I haven't a clue-is.

Coat's on...

[french frank]

Hmm, since he was Christened "Robert Lewis Balfour Stevenson" I think Radio 4 may well have the advantage here.

Not necessarily. The change in spelling might also indicate a change in pronunciation, which wouldn't suggest an 'advantage' to either. He was certainly 'Louis' in one of his earlier novels.

[vinteuil]

ferney has responded to my point: BAY-decker, not BY-decker, as vinteuil mentioned. I was less pedantically concerned about the exact pronunciation of BÄ- as about the suggested BY-.

... perhaps this one is an american?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YmHRKxvwUE

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Baedeker#Pronunciation

[vinteuil]

Hmm, since he was Christened "Robert Lewis Balfour Stevenson" I think Radio 4 may well have the advantage here.

wiki tells us -

'At about age 18, Stevenson was to change the spelling of "Lewis" to "Louis", and in 1873 he dropped "Balfour".'

and goes on to add -

'In other respects too, Stevenson was moving away from his upbringing. His dress became more Bohemian; he already wore his hair long, but he now took to wearing a velveteen jacket and rarely attended parties in conventional evening dress. Within the limits of a strict allowance, he visited cheap pubs and brothels'.

and further -

'In November 1873, after Stevenson's health failed, he was sent to Menton on the French Riviera to recuperate. He returned in better health in April 1874 and settled down to his studies, but he returned to France several times after that. He made long and frequent trips to the neighbourhood of the Forest of Fontainebleau, staying at Barbizon, Grez-sur-Loing, and Nemours and becoming a member of the artists' colonies there, as well as to Paris to visit galleries and the theatres.'

It seems more than likely that he would be Frenchifying the pronunciation as he was Frenchifying his lifestyle...


Perhaps he became 'Louis' for his bohemian friends and in French artistic circles, while remaining 'Lewisss' for his terrifying father...



.

[Serial_Apologist]

HimaLAYas, or HiMAlayas?

I tend to go with the second, which is Sir Mark Tully's way of pronouncing them. For one thing, he's lived and worked in the Indian sub-continent for most if not all of his life; for another he makes more sense to me when taking his turn presenting Something Understood than anyone else speaking on religious and spiritual topics on radio or TV, not that the latter has anything to do with correct or incorrect pronunciation, of course!