Pronunciation watch

[ardcarp]

quite unable to say an "oo" sound, whether this be "book" or "food"

It seems to be a generational thing. I'm not sure about the 'Estuarine' bit. Take any girl from Cheltenham Ladies' College or Roedean and a book will be 'a berk'. Getting kids to sing with a good 'oo' sound needs lots of practice these days!

[Serial_Apologist]

Take any girl from Cheltenham Ladies' College or Roedean and a book will be 'a berk'.

This seems to be a quite recent change in "posh-speak", in the same way "feud" for food is. In my day "berk" was rhyming slang for Berkshire Hunt. No relation to Jeremy, of course.

[ahinton]

It seems to be a generational thing. I'm not sure about the 'Estuarine' bit. Take any girl from Cheltenham Ladies' College or Roedean and a book will be 'a berk'.

As indeed I have observed previously, without (I hasten to add) having first to "take any girl" from either institution in order to arrive at that conclusion.

[ahinton]

This seems to be a quite recent change in "posh-speak", in the same way "feud" for food is. In my day "berk" was rhyming slang for Berkshire Hunt. No relation to Jeremy, of course.

Jeremy Burke? Never head of him. As to another Jeremy who is neither vinous nor kyleish nor clarksonian, what can I say other than "Cor! Bin 'im a.s.a.p.!"...

But yes, nouveau posh-speak it is, methinks and, as such, it will likely give way to something else by the day before yesterday at the latest. "Thank you for cooling (××× firm)", as I heard several times during the past week in an outgoing phone message despite my having made no effort to stick the outfit in the freezer...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But yes, nouveau posh-speak it is, methinks and, as such, it will likely give way to something else by the day before yesterday at the latest. "Thank you for cooling (××× firm)", as I heard several times during the past week in an outgoing phone message despite my having made no effort to stick the outfit in the freezer...

Posh-speak is very lazy. Far from it being refined people making an extra effort, the vowel sounds of Posh are produced by keeping the mouth virtually closed.
Go on; try it.

With your teeth very slightly apart, say "bath". A short "a" is quite difficult unless you open your mouth a little more, but "barth" is easy.

Now say "book". To say it properly, you have to pull the corners of your mouth inwards, but if you don't bother, it comes out as. . . yes, you've guessed it: "berk".

Next, say "too". Again, to say it properly, you will pull the corners of your mouth inwards again. Otherwise, it will sound a bit like the French "tu".

Now say "boat". A posh "oa" will sound perfect if you keep your mouth almost closed.

[ahinton]

Posh-speak is very lazy. Far from it being refined people making an extra effort, the vowel sounds of Posh are produced by keeping the mouth virtually closed.
Go on; try it.

With your teeth very slightly apart, say "bath". A short "a" is quite difficult unless you open your mouth a little more, but "barth" is easy.

Now say "book". To say it properly, you have to pull the corners of your mouth inwards, but if you don't bother, it comes out as. . . yes, you've guessed it: "berk".

Next, say "too". Again, to say it properly, you will pull the corners of your mouth inwards again. Otherwise, it will sound a bit like the French "tu".

Now say "boat". A posh "oa" will sound perfect if you keep your mouth almost closed.

Yes, I know! Doesn't say a whole lot for it, does it? What it does say is that "posh speak" is not only lazy but has shortcomings in clarity. The more traditional kind of "posh speak" to which one has become accustomed from such as His Royal Highgrove, as exemplified by "I'm gaying dyne the tyne in my brine trysers", is little better.

[ardcarp]

Again, to say it properly, you will pull the corners of your mouth inwards again. Otherwise, it will sound a bit like the French "tu".

Ah, memories from childhood! I remember a French teacher getting the whole class to say 'u' as in 'tu'. He told us to make our mouths into an 'O' shape and then say 'ee'. It works.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes, I know! Doesn't say a whole lot for it, does it? What it does say is that "posh speak" is not only lazy but has shortcomings in clarity. The more traditional kind of "posh speak" to which one has become accustomed from such as His Royal Highgrove, as exemplified by "I'm gaying dyne the tyne in my brine trysers", is little better.

When Jodie Foster was trained to speak in a posh English accent for Anna and the King, she did so by not opening her mouth.

[gurnemanz]

Ah, memories from childhood! I remember a French teacher getting the whole class to say 'u' as in 'tu'. He told us to make our mouths into an 'O' shape and then say 'ee'. It works.

I used this method when teaching the same sound in German - ü as in "Frühling" (spring) which should end up sounding more like "freeling" than "frooling". The umlaut indicates the change of a back vowel into a front vowel so the main thing is to get the tongue to the front of the mouth.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

"I'm gaying dyne the tyne in my brine trysers", is little better.

This is also achieved by speaking with a nearly closed mouth.

[vinteuil]

Posh-speak is very lazy.

... toff-bashing is just so lazy... :sigh emoticon:

Tho' we can probably take it.

[ardcarp]

This is also achieved by speaking with a nearly closed mouth.

It is possible to speak with a broad Aberdeen accent (so I am told) with the teeth clenched firmly together. It keeps the cold wind out apart from anything else.

[vinteuil]

It is possible to speak with a broad Aberdeen accent (so I am told) with the teeth clenched firmly together. It keeps the cold wind out apart from anything else.

.

... and I'm sure it's the chill east wind that distinguishes the clipped tight-lipped Cambridge prim accent (Bertrand Russell) from the languorous Oxford drawl (I was thinking of Isaiah Berlin - but his was of course a torrent not a drawl!).

[Serial_Apologist]

.

... and I'm sure it's the chill east wind that distinguishes the clipped tight-lipped Cambridge prim accent (Bertrand Russell) from the languorous Oxford drawl (I was thinking of Isaiah Berlin - but his was of course a torrent not a drawl!).

Or, tonight is expected to be icy. Make sure to grit your teeth.

[ardcarp]

Make sure to grit your teeth

...it gets worse.