Pronunciation watch

[vinteuil]

S_A and I reside in South London.

... ah well, then for you I s'pose it's :

Cowl-cu''a

wiv a glo''al stop

[Lat-Literal]

... ah well, then for you I s'pose it's :

Cowl-cu''a

wiv a glo''al stop

Two generations removed.

The one between took to the Daily Express (and Radio 4).

[mangerton]

... I think ourrr mangerrrton is rrrrevealing his rrrrhotic tendencies

Moi? Neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[french frank]

... I think ourrr mangerrrton is rrrrevealing his rrrrhotic tendencies

I was once helping the 8-year-old son of my Aberdonian landlord with his school spelling: 'Ornithologist', say I. 'A-W-N …' the lad suggests. I decided not to help him after all.

[mangerton]

I was once helping the 8-year-old son of my Aberdonian landlord with his school spelling: 'Ornithologist', say I. 'A-W-N …' the lad suggests. I decided not to help him after all.

Quite! When miss m was a similar age, I told her that correct pronunciation was a great help to correct spelling. I was thinking more of words like "separate", which as we all know is frequently misspelled.

Going further back, I remember my mother correcting my spelling of "orchestra". I had missed out the first "r". "But mum, that's not what the man on the wireless says!"

[jean]

...When miss m was a similar age, I told her that correct pronunciation was a great help to correct spelling. I was thinking more of words like "separate", which as we all know is frequently misspelled...

The problem with a language like English which has a strong stress accent is that all the unstressed syllables tend to become schwa, which is no help at all in spelling.

Whether separate is stressed as a noun or a verb, the poblem vowel is the second. No ordinary pronunciation is going to tell you whether that's an a or an e.

It's percisely because English has never bothered to change spelling to reflect changes in pronunciation that we encounter the phenomenon of Spelling pronunciation.

[ardcarp]

Bearing in mind the above, Jean, which foreign language is easiest for a native English speaker to learn to pronounce well? French (ironically the one most commonly taught) is probably among the harder of the European languages. (I note Simon Russell Beale got his 'll' wrong in 'ville' this morning. Shock horror.) Some say German is the simplest. Others cite Italian and Spanish...though not Portuguese. The worst thing about English as a starting point (IMVHO) is the awful diphthong vowel sounds we have, as in 'eye', 'cow' or 'hay'.

[teamsaint]

Tricolon?

Attempt, followed by part of the intestine?
I think the americans may pronounce the first bit as in trip......

[jean]

Tricolon?

...I think the americans may pronounce the first bit as in trip......

So do the rhetoricians.

Attempt, followed by part of the intestine?

Like my preferred definition of Tridentine - 'Having three teeth'.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So do the rhetoricians.

As in "trickle on"?

[jean]

Bearing in mind the above, Jean, which foreign language is easiest for a native English speaker to learn to pronounce well? French (ironically the one most commonly taught) is probably among the harder of the European languages. (I note Simon Russell Beale got his 'll' wrong in 'ville' this morning. Shock horror.) Some say German is the simplest. Others cite Italian and Spanish...though not Portuguese. The worst thing about English as a starting point (IMVHO) is the awful diphthong vowel sounds we have, as in 'eye', 'cow' or 'hay'.

The easiest ones must be those where spelling determines pronunciation (or vice versa).

That should make Italian a winner - but for those awful diphthong vowel sounds we have, which we don't even hear properly when we're doing them, and so find it impossible to eliminate.

Even Polish is easy once you've learned the rules.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've just bought the Linguaphone Spanish All-Talk course. I have to trust that the Spanish pronunciation is OK, but a great deal of it is in English. The English woman speaks in a kind of semi-posh Estuary English, similar to C.B-H and is quite unable to say an "oo" sound, whether this be "book" or "food". But it gets worse. There's also a very sloppy American man sharing in the explanations. He frequently tells the listener to "repead airfter the pahse". I accept that Americans speak with a different accent, but this one is an extreme case.

[jean]

As in "trickle on"?

More or less.

A fascinating figure, especially the expanding sort.

[teamsaint]

So do the rhetoricians.

Like my preferred definition of Tridentine - 'Having three teeth'.

Thanks for that.
Although I found an internet site suggesting the first bit was like a five point score in Rugby.

But I'll go with your version.

[french frank]

Like my preferred definition of Tridentine - 'Having three teeth'.

Is there any other?