Pronunciation watch

[Bryn]

Am I missing something?
Where I come from, anger and banger rhyme with each other.
Were you born in a manger?

Let's not get eaten up over this. It's French, innit?

[Padraig]

Let's not get eaten up over this. It's French, innit?

Not with me, Bryn. I think - MAN - jer - ton.

Also, anger and banger do not rhyme here, though we do have a Bangor.

Clear now, Mangerton?

[Pulcinella]

Not with me, Bryn. I think - MAN - jer - ton.

Also, anger and banger do not rhyme here, though we do have a Bangor.

Clear now, Mangerton?

I remain at a loss to see (or hear) how anger and banger don't rhyme.
And I'd make a distinction, albeit a small one, between banger and Bangor, at least the north Wales one!

PS: Perhaps posh people have bengers and mash?

[jean]

I remain at a loss to see (or hear) how anger and banger don't rhyme.
And I'd make a distinction, albeit a small one, between banger and Bangor, at least the north Wales one!

I think that's the distinction we are looking at (or hearing).

[Serial_Apologist]

PS: Perhaps posh people have bengers and mash?

It's MESH, old bean.

[Pulcinella]

It's MESH, old bean.

Of course, but baked beans, not any old bean, surely?
:-)

[Serial_Apologist]

Of course, but baked beans, not any old bean, surely?
:-)

[jean]

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I remain at a loss to see (or hear) how anger and banger don't rhyme.

As do I.


(Mind you, I seem to have gone through a period of thinking that "Palestrina" rhymes with "Lassus" )

[french frank]

I remain at a loss to see (or hear) how anger and banger don't rhyme.

Well, an-ger has a hard gg sound because the g comes at the beginning of a syllable where there is no related monosyllabic form 'ang'. It always has two syllables (like fin-gger).

The monosyllabic forms bang (bæŋ), hang (hæŋ) &c tend by association in RP pronunciation to lead to banger/'bæŋ.ər), rather than ban-gger, hanger/'hæŋ.ər rather than han-gger.

Man-ger-ton has, presumably, the hard, sounded g if it has the same derivation as Mangerton in ROI - from an Mhangarta. No?

[mangerton]

Well, an-ger has a hard gg sound because the g comes at the beginning of a syllable where there is no related monosyllabic form 'ang'. It always has two syllables (like fin-gger).

The monosyllabic forms bang (bæŋ), hang (hæŋ) &c tend by association in RP pronunciation to lead to banger/'bæŋ.ər), rather than ban-gger, hanger/'hæŋ.ər rather than han-gger.

Thanks for clearing that up, ff. And thanks to all for your responses. I am really none the wiser!

Man-ger-ton has, presumably, the hard, sounded g if it has the same derivation as Mangerton in ROI - from an Mhangarta. No?

I don't know. I have no idea where the name "mangerton" came from, in the context I'm using it, which is Scottish. I don't know whether the Irish, English, or Scottish Mangerton came first, but I'm certain that they came before the Australian.

[jean]

Ff has explained beautifully why there is a distinction between anger and banger, or finger and singer.

But I suppose if you're used to a variety of English where the distinction isn't made, you don't hear any difference, so you don't see how it can be there at all.

[Serial_Apologist]

The G is commonly pronounced strongly in the middle of such words as singer and banger in regional accents around the Birmingham and Liverpool areas, less strongly but still noticeably in the rest of Lancashire and the W. Riding area of S. Yorkshire; hence the exaggerated mispronunciation Birmiggum mischievously attributed by iggerunt outsiders to the people of Brum. I have also noted Cockneys pronouncing the first G in singing, e.g. sing-ging, throughout my life, and had it corrected in myself!

[Pulcinella]

Thanks all.
Jean's 'how' sums up my amazement here, now even more so with finger and singer!
Perhaps it's because I'm a Liverpool lad at heart (though my parents would have said Crosby, actually, in a way rather like Brighton and Hove would distinguish themselves).

[muzzer]

And, topically, the breakfast presenter has just illustrated this alternative pronunciation of sing-gur.......