Pronunciation watch

[jean]

No - all my fault. I forgot about that

But I didn't!

[Pabmusic]

But I didn't!

Jean, what is the point you're trying (rather hard) to make? That I made a mistake? I've acknowledged that. Anything else that might make you feel better?

Contrary to popular opinion, I am human, too. And in 2008 I suffered a brain hemorrhage that destroyed part of the left side of my brain. Some things - like which buttons do you press to answer a phone call - take a while to return, especially if they have not been required since 2008. The fact that the AS for 'bird' was 'brid' was one of them.

Do you wish me to don sackcloth & ashes? In the meantime I shall retire from commenting on language.

[jean]

It's very simple - I originally made the point about AS brid having turned into bird.

I am just trying not to be ignored. Is that so terrible?

[Pabmusic]

It's very simple - I originally made the point about AS brid having turned into bird.

I am just trying not to be ignored. Is that so terrible?

Then I should have addressed my comment to FF to you instead. And so I do now.

[amateur51]

I recommend a full public inquiry. I propose Nigel Havers as Chairman.

Silly suggestion - how can anyone with a surname like that possibly make a decent Chair?

[french frank]

Then I should have addressed my comment to FF to you instead. And so I do now.

It might be over pedantic to discuss who made the mistake, Pabs - I thought it was me, or I (I didn't read far enough back on the thread when replying to check that I was simply making the point that Jean had already made).

Curiously: someone made the point here recently that Richard (Richard III) is prison slang for 'bird' (bird lime = time). So it might easily have been Richard the Thrid = Brid :-)

[Honoured Guest]

In Ireland and the Irish diaspora, Richard (Richard III) is prison slang for 'excrement' (pronunciation of 'third').

[Richard Tarleton]

That featured in an amusing [sic] Two Ronnies sketch that consisted entirely of Cockney rhyming slang. There, the joke was it was unclear whether it meant bird, or the other. It comes at 3.14, if you can be bothered.

[french frank]

In Ireland and the Irish diaspora, Richard (Richard III) is prison slang for 'excrement' (pronunciation of 'third').

Which etymologically has a connected interest. The early forms eventually gave rise to 'treddle', the dialectal word denoting a pellet of sheep/goat dung. The early (OE) form was tyrdyl, later triddle and treddle, thus exhibiting the same metathesis which altered bri > bir, thri > thir. So tyr > try > tre.

I think what I wrote was nonsense. The third example was the opposite of the other two. .... Such is life.

Where's Jean?

[jean]

I think I got a bit lost at that point.

But I am wondering now what the more francophone members here think of the preferred pronunciation of Eugénie Grandet as heard all over Radio 4 at the moment in trails for the forthcoming serialisation?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Certain presenters seem unable to pronounce the sound "oo".

Clemency Burton-Hill is one. Using the the French for "you" as an example, she invariably uses the "oo" as in "tu" rather than as in "vous". It sounds affected, as though she is ashamed of sounding too posh.

[Radio64]

Certain presenters seem unable to pronounce the sound "oo".

Clemency Burton-Hill is one. Using the the French for "you" as an example, she invariably uses the "oo" as in "tu" rather than as in "vous". It sounds affected, as though she is ashamed of sounding too posh.

So how often is this happening? Has she started speaking French?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So how often is this happening?

Every time she says a word like boot, you & flute.

[Roslynmuse]

This is a fairly common, recent phenomenon - not just in speech but in young (training) singers too. In the choirs I work with I'm forever trying to get rid of that sound. The irony is that whenever it's required - in French, as you suggest, or with the German ü sound (not quite the same but similar enough for our purposes) - they can't do it!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This is a fairly common, recent phenomenon - not just in speech but in young (training) singers too.

Possibly Princess Di's slight tendency towards this has been influential. However, one of my primary school teachers in the 1950s, whose speech was otherwise impeccable, did it all the time.