Pronunciation watch

[jean]

Actually, ENO (and to be fair other companies too) have always tended to be inconsistent in this regard, especially with titles. They've happily done The Twilight of the Gods in the same season as La Traviata and The Marriage of Figaro alongside Cosi fan Tutte.

It's the same sort of inconsistency that we find in our versions of foreign place names (discussed above), isn't it?

The Twilight of the Gods and The Marriage of Figaro are translations that just happen to be very commonly used in this country - especially the second, whatever language the opera's being sung in - but who has ever heard of The Fallen Woman or The Woman who Went Astray?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

After listening to several interviews with Mexican actor Gael Garcia Bernal about the film No, about the 1988 Chilean referendum, I am perplexed - is the dictator Pinochet's name to be pronounced Peeno-shette (GGB) or Peeno-shay (every Brit interviewer)?

I brought this one up "long ago", but had to concede that (as FF says) the name is of French origin. But Spanish speakers do say Peenochette and that includes Chile.

[Bert Coules]

...but who has ever heard of The Fallen Woman or The Woman who Went Astray?

A fair point, though there's (presumably) no reason why those titles, or something similar, couldn't be used with the original as a subtitle. I think it would be good to shake things up a little: it's fatally easily to get into the habit of regarding a title as simply a familiar collection of sounds and completely look past what it actually means.

ENO did once, in a fit of bravery, perform a piece billed as Mozart's Figaro's Wedding: bravo! La Traviata doesn't have to be The Fallen Woman or The Woman Who Went Astray (though actually I rather like that second one). Why not call it Violetta? Or if it comes to that, The Lady of the Camellias?

Bert

[vinteuil]

I brought this one up "long ago", but had to concede that (as FF says) the name is of French origin. But Spanish speakers do say Peenochette and that includes Chile.

... way back on the BBC boards this question came up - and we had a very lengthy and scholarly contribution (most of which I now forget... ) but which, I think, said that, yes, in Spanish, and in Chile, it wd be Pinochetttt - but there were various historical and political reasons within Chile which meant that certain admirers or detractors of the Dictator wd tend to Pinochettt or Pinoshay.

I wish I could find that original contribution...

[gurnemanz]

who has ever heard of The Fallen Woman or The Woman who Went Astray?

Or "The Female Somnambulist". English doesn't do gender very well.

[Bert Coules]

Or "The Female Somnambulist". English doesn't do gender very well.

Indeed. Then why not abandon the thought of a close translation and simply give the piece a new and more evocative name?

Bert

[Richard Tarleton]

Indeed. Then why not abandon the thought of a close translation and simply give the piece a new and more evocative name?

Bert

"The Girl who Walked in her Sleep" - sounds like the fourth in a popular literary franchise - should give the producer a few ideas as well

[gurnemanz]

I've always been a bit confused about "Il Seraglio". Why pick an Italian title when the opera is in German? The Italian word is spelt "serraglio", anyway. So it should either be "The Seraglio" or "Il Serraglio". The Germans use the word "Serail" which is also an English word.

[amateur51]

Or "The Female Somnambulist". English doesn't do gender very well.

What about The Sonamubuliste?

[jean]

Adding an 'e' doesn't make someone feminine, though.

Artists and artistes are different sorts of people, but not on grounds of their sex.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Much of what is being discussed would be more appropriate inPedants' Paradise. So to keep us on the pronunciation topic, may I return to the three recordings of Elgar's oratorio The Apostles?
It concerns the pronunciation of "Hebron", which was "Heebron" in the Boult recording, but "Hebbron" in both Hickox and Elder versions. The latter is the pronunciation used by the BBC news team, and may be the way it is pronounced in the modern town, but I understand the former was more common before the creation of the state of Israel after WWII.

[amateur51]

Adding an 'e' doesn't make someone feminine, though.

Artists and artistes are different sorts of people, but not on grounds of their sex.

You spotted the flaw in that, jean

[jean]

Much of what is being discussed would be more appropriate in Pedants' Paradise...

I was hoping that before we left opera we might consider Bellini's curiously named Englishmen Lord Arturo Talbo, Sir Riccardo Forth, Sir Giorgio Valton, Lord Gualtiero Valton and Sir Bruno Roberton, not to mention Charles I's widow Enrichetta di Francia.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Getting back to pronunciations, how do people pronounce the following?

1. margarine
2. vitamin

I was brought up to say "marjareen" and "vittamin"' both of which I now understand to be incorrect.

[MrGongGong]

Getting back to pronunciations, how do people pronounce the following?

1. margarine
2. vitamin

I was brought up to say "marjareen" and "vittamin"' both of which I now understand to be incorrect.

come on , first with the Robert Robinson version wins the prize