Pronunciation watch

[Pabmusic]

Yes, but the final e is really ONLY pronounced in French in poetry, dramatic verse and song because they rely on strict metrical forms, and unless preceding a vowel (or a caesura), it counts as a full syllable. You are right that certain regional accents do emphasise an otherwise "mute" e - but that is recognisably an accent - not how the average standard French person would speak the same words.

Satie is [eʁik sati], not [eʁik sati.ə].

OK, thanks.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

He uses a lot of rounded nasal "o" too which as with rounded "a" is often associated with his class background although not exclusively. Directly related to "oh" it is the startled sound of an individual hearing that there are actually other viewpoints, so entrenched that it is incorporated into everyday pronunciation.

This has always fascinated me. Those who spoke with posh voices when I was young, such as Alec Guiness, Laurence Olivier, David Niven, did not prounce "o" as iit were "i-oo". Don't misunderstand me; I don't find either to be unpleasant.

[Serial_Apologist]

This has always fascinated me. Those who spoke with posh voices when I was young, such as Alec Guiness, Laurence Olivier, David Niven, did not prounce "o" as iit were "i-oo". Don't misunderstand me; I don't find either to be unpleasant.

Guiness, Olivier, Niven and others weren't I think thought of as "talking posh", "o" pronounced "oh" was and remains RP: "eau" as in "eah neau my deah", the way the Queen still speaks, would have been described as la-di-da in the 50s and 60s, when for example "you" was still pronounced "yoo" as Guiness would have said it and I with my 50s elocution still would. Something closer to "Yi" seems nowadays to emerge particularly from young suburban ladies all around the country, which sounds to me like toddler speak, but I think the whole concept of "talking posh" is a recent one.

[jean]

...I think the whole concept of "talking posh" is a recent one.

How recent is recent?

We certainly talked about 'talking posh' in the fifties.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Guiness, Olivier, Niven and others weren't I think thought of as "talking posh.

Yes, well that was before Steph McGovern et al.

[kernelbogey]

[...] "you" was still pronounced "yoo" as Guiness would have said it and I with my 50s elocution still would. Something closer to "Yi" seems nowadays to emerge particularly from young suburban ladies all around the country, which sounds to me like toddler speak, but I think the whole concept of "talking posh" is a recent one.

I find this and other changed vowel sounds common among people in their early twenties, especially women. Some vowel sounds have drifted towards what used to be considered 'posh' pronunciation. For example 'neau' for no as in post 543.

I've also noticed 'a', as indefinite article, increasingly frequently pronounced 'ay', where 'uh' would be the traditional pronunciation (and mine).

[mercia]

just been watching a TV railway programme

if Portillo is a Spanish name, should it be pronounced Por-tee-yo ?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Indeed, it should, but an astute politician would probably Anglicise it.

[Pabmusic]

just been watching a TV railway programme

if Portillo is a Spanish name, should it be pronounced Por-tee-yo ?

Oh - we'll be saying 'Paree' and 'Omsterdom' next.

[mercia]

...... so why do we say Ma-yor-ca ?


[or perhaps we don't]

[Pabmusic]

...... so why do we say Ma-yor-ca ?


[or perhaps we don't]

We used not to. But then, we pronounced garage as 'garridge' when I was a boy (50s and 60s). My mother spoke of 'barridge' balloons in the war.

[antongould]

...... so why do we say Ma-yor-ca ?


[or perhaps we don't]

We say Madge York a

But then we keep coal in the bath

[Pabmusic]

We say Madge York a

But then we keep coal in the bath

There is a deeper side to this (perhaps), which is that it is no longer quite as acceptable to do what English has been doing for 1,000 years - to take foreign words and adopt them as our own. We'd never think of pronouncing courage, brave, or confident as if they were French, but there's just as much reason to do so as there is to pronounce garage in a French way.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Oh - we'll be saying 'Paree' and 'Omsterdom' next.

On a related issue, we used to add an "s" to Lyon and Marseille to make them seem more ...er... French.

[gurnemanz]

We used not to. But then, we pronounced garage as 'garridge' when I was a boy (50s and 60s). My mother spoke of 'barridge' balloons in the war.

Nigel Farridge sounds OK to me