Pronunciation watch

[amateur51]

Welsh has its difficulties, because of the initial grammatical sound changes (lenition). Spanish is a doddle, grammatically, to learn but the sounds are quite awkward to master. One of many languages where native speakers make the individual words blend into each other and they all sound like one extremely long word.

The Welsh softening of certain consonants (soft, nasal and aspirate) depends on the gender of the noun (only feminine nouns mutate) their position in the sentence and their relationship with other words that create the mutation.

For a much more succinct explanation please see http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Welsh/Mutations

I was delighted to find that my 1968 GCE 'O' level had mostly stood the test of time

[Pabmusic]

...I would still welcome comments on 'Alfven' and 'Wiren'.

(I will have to write these on a piece of paper to remember them!)

I am not Swedish, but believe them both to be pronounced more or less as written, except that:

a) Alfven becomes (almost) Al-uf-ven, with the central sound an indistinct schwa, and only barely sounded;

b) The -en sound is a little like 'ayn', rather than 'enn', though not entirely so - somewhere in between, in fact.

Thus: Al-uf-vayn and Vi-rayn.

Ysayë is easy. It is Isiah, pronounced Ee-seye-yuh. I's like the English pronunciation of Isiah, except the first syllable is Ee instead of I, and the S is more S than Z.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

In his speech today, David Cameron kept referring to "ay referendum". Is there any logic in this, or is he just being pompous?
Surely it's "a" referendum, not "ay", "ae", "ai". etc?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In his speech today, David Cameron kept referring to "ay referendum". Is there any logic in this, or is he just being pompous?
Surely it's "a" referendum, not "ay", "ae", "ai". etc?

Possibly because we might eventually be presented instead with "Referendum B"?

[french frank]

Ysayë is easy. It is Isiah, pronounced Ee-seye-yuh. I's like the English pronunciation of Isiah, except the first syllable is Ee instead of I, and the S is more S than Z.

I don't agree with that one, because the diaeresis is on the y - Ysaÿe - not the final e. Wiki gives the IPA form as [øʒɛn iza.i].

[gurnemanz]

In his speech today, David Cameron kept referring to "ay referendum". Is there any logic in this, or is he just being pompous?
Surely it's "a" referendum, not "ay", "ae", "ai". etc?

William Hague does this all the time. Maybe it has become contagious round the Cabinet table.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

William Hague does this all the time. Maybe it has become contagious round the Cabinet table.

Might it be an offshoot of the pronunciation of "the" as "thee" when communicating emphasis?

Y'know, as in the familiar statement "It is widely acknowledged amongst commentators of taste and sense that Brian Ferneyhough is thee most important living composer".

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Might it be an offshoot of the pronunciation of "the" as "thee" when communicating emphasis?

I did wonder that, but the indefinite article is, erm, indefinite, so wouldn't normally be used for emphasis. I think it's just a mannerism. I too noticed William Hague using it today.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I did wonder that, but the indefinite article is, erm, indefinite, so wouldn't normally be used for emphasis. I think it's just a mannerism. I too noticed William Hague using it today.

Yes, but perhaps politicians nowadays can't afford to be associated with anything "indefinite", so they make their indefinite articles sound as definite as they can? Sort of "This is ay proposition; one of many that my wonderful brain can imagine!"

[Lateralthinking1]

In his speech today, David Cameron kept referring to "ay referendum". Is there any logic in this, or is he just being pompous?
Surely it's "a" referendum, not "ay", "ae", "ai". etc?

I would say that the accent on the "a" sound - literally "eh?" - means not listening or not wanting to hear. It is in his case indicative both of the Government's non-hearing of the public and the fact that he didn't want to listen to the arguments from his own MPs that have now led to the need to give an EU speech.

He uses a lot of rounded nasal "o" too which as with rounded "a" is often associated with his class background although not exclusively. Directly related to "oh" it is the startled sound of an individual hearing that there are actually other viewpoints, so entrenched that it is incorporated into everyday pronunciation.

[LeMartinPecheur]

In his speech today, David Cameron kept referring to "ay referendum". Is there any logic in this, or is he just being pompous?
Surely it's "a" referendum, not "ay", "ae", "ai". etc?

"There's only ONE referendum!" (To the tune of Guantanamera?)

Be very, very glad we're not getting more!

[Lateralthinking1]

"There's only ONE referendum!" (To the tune of Guantanamera?)

Be very, very glad we're not getting more!

Alas, it was Andy Kershaw who advised there have been more versions of 'Guantanamera' than almost any other popular song.

[Pabmusic]

I don't agree with that one, because the diaeresis is on the y - Ysaÿe - not the final e. Wiki gives the IPA form as [øʒɛn iza.i].

Yes, you're right (what was I thinking of?*) - Iza-ee.

*[Just let anyone say I can't end this with a preposition!]

Ysaÿe was once the soloist in a concert in which Elgar was to conduct the A-flat symphony. Before he began, Elgar was surprised to find Ysaÿe among the 1sts - quite a shock!

[Second thoughts]

I'm going to back-track a little. The diaeresis separates the A and Y sounds, surely? But what about the E? Isn't that often pronounced in French (Belgian French, I suppose)? It is certainly common to pronounce it as a schwa when singing. If so, Wiki might be wrong, and the name should be Ee-sa-ee-uh (i.za.i.ə). That would be more in line with the Hebrew ספר ישעיה (English Isaiah). I know nothing of Belgian Jewish tradition, though.

[Pabmusic]

Alas, it was Andy Kershaw who advised there have been more versions of 'Guantanamera' than almost any other popular song.

Sort of appropriate for the 21st Century - the girl from Guantanamo.

[french frank]

[Second thoughts]

I'm going to back-track a little. The diaeresis separates the A and Y sounds, surely? But what about the E? Isn't that often pronounced in French (Belgian French, I suppose)? It is certainly common to pronounce it as a schwa when singing. If so, Wiki might be wrong, and the name should be Ee-sa-ee-uh (i.za.i.ə). That would be more in line with the Hebrew ספר ישעיה (English Isaiah). I know nothing of Belgian Jewish tradition, though.

Yes, but the final e is really ONLY pronounced in French in poetry, dramatic verse and song because they rely on strict metrical forms, and unless preceding a vowel (or a caesura), it counts as a full syllable. You are right that certain regional accents do emphasise an otherwise "mute" e - but that is recognisably an accent - not how the average standard French person would speak the same words.

Satie is [eʁik sati], not [eʁik sati.ə].