Pronunciation watch

[Ferretfancy]

I had occasion to phone Hewlett Packard yesterday. The girl on their recorded message said "haitch ' throughout.

[Sir Velo]

I had occasion to phone Hewlett Packard yesterday. The girl on their recorded message said "haitch ' throughout.

I've come to the conclusion that people who say "haitch" believe they are being scrupulous in their enunciation and that anyone who says "aitch" is actually guilty of speaking lazily by dropping their "haitches" (sic)!

[french frank]

I've come to think that people who say "haitch" believe they are being scrupulous in their enunciation and that anyone who says "aitch" is actually dropping their "haitches" (sic).

But it's not an individual characteristic, is it? I suspect it is now actually taught by many schools, so tends to become generational. I think my brother's 'children' give it an initial 'h'.

[Pabmusic]

But it's not an individual characteristic, is it? I suspect it is now actually taught by many schools, so tends to become generational. I think my brother's 'children' give it an initial 'h'.

I have nothing useful to contribute here, but I did once work with an Essex girl (genuine one) who would come out with things like:

'E 'aven't got a nope at all, (h)an' 'e don't (h)even try.

[Serial_Apologist]

But it's not an individual characteristic, is it? I suspect it is now actually taught by many schools, so tends to become generational. I think my brother's 'children' give it an initial 'h'.

I just ate it, I do!

[JFLL]

I had occasion to phone Hewlett Packard yesterday. The girl on their recorded message said "haitch ' throughout.

OED says this:

“The name aitch, which is now so remote from any connection with the sound, goes back through Middle English ache to Old French ache = Spanish ache, Italian acca, pointing to a late Latin *accha, *ahha, or *aha, exemplifying the sound; cf. Italian effe, elle, emme, etc. (The earlier Latin name was ha.)”

So one could say that the pronunciation haitch was an attempt to narrow the gap between sound and meaning – to achieve greater ‘iconicity’ in linguists’ parlance – which has opened up over the centuries because of sound-changes. It seems to be reasonably old. OED records haitch in 1821 and has a nice quotation from Punch in 1862: “She could not bear hoysters until there was a haitch in the month.”

[Sir Velo]

I suspect it is now actually taught by many schools, so tends to become generational. I think my brother's 'children' give it an initial 'h'.

This article certainly tends to support your view. The following from the BBC Pronunciation Unit is indicative of current thinking: "British English dictionaries give aytch as the standard pronunciation for the letter H. However, the pronunciation haytch is also attested as a legitimate variant. We also do not ask broadcasters who naturally say haytch to change their pronunciation but if a broadcaster contacted to ask us, we would tell them that aytch is regarded as the standard pronunciation in British English, people can feel very strongly about this and this pronunciation is less likely to attract audience complaints.

Haytch is a standard pronunciation in Irish English and is increasingly being used by native English-speaking people all across the country, irrespective of geographical provenance or social standing. Polls have shown that the uptake of haytch by younger native speakers is on the rise. Schoolchildren repeatedly being told not to drop Hs may cause them to hyper-correct and insert them where they don't exist."

[jean]

There's a persistent claim that Irish Protestants say aitch and Catholics haitch, but I have never been able to test this to my satisfaction.

(Posted before I saw the last post!)

[Serial_Apologist]

I have nothing useful to contribute here, but I did once work with an Essex girl (genuine one) who would come out with things like:

'E 'aven't got a nope at all, (h)an' 'e don't (h)even try.

When I lived in Essex, there was a big argument if one came from the Romford area as to whether one was Essex-born or an east Londoner. I asked one of my father's care workers, coming as she did from the Collier Row district of north Romford. "Nah", she replied, "Essex gels, us lot. We can't stand that 'orrible cockney accent, like Beffnul Green. Must be the most 'orrible accent in the weld"

[french frank]

"...we would tell them that aytch is regarded as the standard pronunciation in British English, people can feel very strongly about this and this pronunciation is less likely to attract audience complaints."

The whole BBC quote is very interesting - thanks for that. Clearly people do feel strongly about it

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But it's not an individual characteristic, is it? I suspect it is now actually taught by many schools, so tends to become generational. I think my brother's 'children' give it an initial 'h'.

All sorts of silly things are taught in schools, sadly, like "Let's have you all sat down".

"Haitch" is generally said by people trying to be posher than they are.

[Lateralthinking1]

I am pleased that the Irish connection with haitch has been mentioned but I question whether it is standard Irish or indeed Catholic Irish. My feeling is that it is less well educated Irish just as we have less well educated English.

The BBC Pronunciation Unit justifies its loose application of the correct pronunciation weakly, using the horrible word "hyper-correct". Worse, it puts it forward as a verb when it is an adjective and it inserts a hyphen which is the secondary form.

I think that we need to distinguish between changes that have occurred because of common sense - it is more difficult rather than less difficult to say "an hotel" - and ignorance. "Chimley" took off at one point and needed to be stopped.

[jean]

The BBC Pronunciation Unit justifies its loose application of the correct pronunciation weakly, using the horrible word "hyper-correct". Worse, it puts it forward as a verb when it is an adjective and it inserts a hyphen which is the secondary form.

It's usually the noun hypercorrection that's used, and it is a useful concept, nearly always the result of anxiety about being wrong (as mentioned earlier) for which there isn't really another term.

I am sure that's what's responsible for examples such as this, which is found as early as 1856:

Cockney hairdresser
“They say, sir, the cholera is in the hair, sir”
“Indeed! ahem! Then I hope you’re very particular about the brushes you use.”
“Oh, I see, you don’t hunderstand me, sir - I don’t mean the ’air of the ed, but the hair hof the hatmosphere.”

But I'm not sure it's quite the same as the pronunciation of the name for the letter.

[french frank]

The BBC Pronunciation Unit justifies its loose application of the correct pronunciation weakly, using the horrible word "hyper-correct". Worse, it puts it forward as a verb when it is an adjective and it inserts a hyphen which is the secondary form.

Well, if 'to correct' is a verb then 'to hypercorrect' can surely be a verb. It is a standard linguistic term meaning 'to over correct' ot 'to correct something which is perceived to be wrong (but isn't'). The hyphen I would dispense with, though.

[Serial_Apologist]

It's the edge cutter I need - not the edge cutter!