Pronunciation watch

[kernelbogey]

Maybe influenced by American pronunciation, especially southern states. Eg a wine enthusiast from Alabama: "Ah lahk fahn wahn".

Agreed - and that is where, I believe, the rock/pop pronunciation comes from. I've also observed it in the pronunciation of some Afro-Carribean-heritage Brits.

[DracoM]

Has anyone noticed that Priti Patel, our Home Secretary, turns every final '-ing' into '-in'?
NEVER says -ing, always -in.
AAAAARRGGHH!

[ardcarp]

Yes...big discussion in our family. (We can't stand the woman, her dropped g's being only part of the reason.)

It's an interesting phenomenon. Ready for a spiel?

It's really snobby to look down on g-droppers. Mind you, some non-RP speakers do the opposite and over-accentuate the 'g', for instance the denizens of Birmingham, as in "Oim going swimming".

My sister who lives in Norway and is bi-lingual, points out that final cosonants are often silent, as in the word 'og' (meaning 'and') and 'dag bladet' (the daily newspaper).

In fact, when you think about it, well-spoken RP people do not accentuate a final 'g', in fact they hardly pronounce it at all.

Try out of the word 'thinking' as enunciated by (a) Ms Patel and (b) Mr/Ms RP speaker.

(a) pronounces the final vowel-sound 'i' by placing the front of her tongue just behind her teeth, which doesn't assist production of a 'g'.

(b) pronounces the final vowel-sound 'i' by placing the back of the tongue at the rear of the palate. There is still very little g-sound.

Try it! It's not really the 'g' but the vowel before it which is different.

To hear a resounding final 'g', just take a trip up to Brum.

[vinteuil]

.

... an' yer real toff may indulge in huntin', shootin', and fishin' - and yet be a million miles from Priti Patel and her minglin


.

[Bryn]

Yes...big discussion in our family. (We can't stand the woman, her dropped g's being only part of the reason.)

It's an interesting phenomenon. Ready for a spiel?

It's really snobby to look down on g-droppers. Mind you, some non-RP speakers do the opposite and over-accentuate the 'g', for instance the denizens of Birmingham, as in "Oim going swimming".

My sister who lives in Norway and is bi-lingual, points out that final cosonants are often silent, as in the word 'og' (meaning 'and') and 'dag bladet' (the daily newspaper).

In fact, when you think about it, well-spoken RP people do not accentuate a final 'g', in fact they hardly pronounce it at all.

Try out of the word 'thinking' as enunciated by (a) Ms Patel and (b) Mr/Ms RP speaker.

(a) pronounces the final vowel-sound 'i' by placing the front of her tongue just behind her teeth, which doesn't assist production of a 'g'.

(b) pronounces the final vowel-sound 'i' by placing the back of the tongue at the rear of the palate. There is still very little g-sound.

Try it! It's not really the 'g' but the vowel before it which is different.

To hear a resounding final 'g', just take a trip up to Brum.

Or Derbyshire, . . . WIth "singing", both "g"s are sounded, the first being well hard.

[french frank]

It's really snobby to look down on g-droppers. Mind you, some non-RP speakers do the opposite and over-accentuate the 'g', for instance the denizens of Birmingham, as in "Oim going swimming".

On the other hand, who is most likely to go huntin', shootin' and fishin' - usually spelt that way to denote the h'upper class. In standard pronunciation the final g is swallowed up to combine with the preceding nasal, thus /kɪŋ/ for king, not kingg. Same happens with think - /θɪŋk/

Blast! trust monsieur v to get in first!

[gurnemanz]

The answer is Blowin’ in the Wind.

[kernelbogey]

some non-RP speakers do the opposite and over-accentuate the 'g', for instance the denizens of Birmingham, as in "Oim going swimming". (ardy)

In Liverpool too, I beiieve

[cloughie]

Dvorak - one which over the years has varied. My preference has always been for a silent ‘D’ and a french sounding ‘j’ ie ‘vawjacques’ but increasingly the ‘D’ has been pronounced more sounding like d-vawjacques with the ‘d’ and ‘v’ slid together (Georgia this morning and Lizzie less subtly slid on Saturday morning). Any views out there?

[Bryn]

Dvorak - one which over the years has varied. My preference has always been for a silent ‘D’ and a french sounding ‘j’ ie ‘vawjacques’ but increasingly the ‘D’ has been pronounced more sounding like d-vawjacques with the ‘d’ and ‘v’ slid together (Georgia this morning and Lizzie less subtly slid on Saturday morning). Any views out there?

I think this is a pretty good exposition of the problem:

[cloughie]

I think this is a pretty good exposition of the problem:

Fine, Bryn, I’ll stick with mine it’s near enough, and better than many I hear!

[muzzer]

I think this is a pretty good exposition of the problem:

Cheers (having a shot to hand appears to assist)

[french frank]

Fine, Bryn, I’ll stick with mine it’s near enough, and better than many I hear!

What 'mouth organ' players call the 'Close Enough Style'. Though I'm not sure why anyone would imagine the initial D was silent … Given the different phonetic systems of English and Czech, the dropping of the D is one thing I would rate, with the stressing the final á, as "wrong".

[cloughie]

What 'mouth organ' players call the 'Close Enough Style'. Though I'm not sure why anyone would imagine the initial D was silent … Given the different phonetic systems of English and Czech, the dropping of the D is one thing I would rate, with the stressing the final á, as "wrong".

Then I’ve had a lifetime of being wrong about many things - still here and enjoying his symphonies! - and many other compositions.

[gurnemanz]

Cheers (having a shot to hand appears to assist)

Looks like Becherovka. We had a bottle once. A digestif tasting a bit like Jägermeister. Pleasant enough but not entirely to my taste. We had a large bottle once which took years to use up.

I couldn't get my tongue round that ř sound as described. Like most people I use the more accessible Jacques sound, as mentioned above. Having been a language teacher I was curious and sitting here with nothing better to do on chilly Bank Holiday I investigated. 16 min explication here. Clearly, much practice needed to achieve authenticity. I shall stick to Jacques.