Pronunciation watch

[Sir Velo]

Quite right FF.

Striggio should be pronounced as two syllables - Stri'jo'. "Gio", whether at the beginning or end of a word is never pronounced "gee-oh" but "jo'".
In Italian, the "i" modifies a hard consonant to a soft sound; it does not add a redundant additional syllable.

But don't take my word for it...

[kernelbogey]

Am I right in believing that the BBC no longer has a pronunciation unit? (I had an idea FF made a reference to it on this thread, but perhaps am mistaken.)

[jean]

Striggio should be pronounced as two syllables - Stri'jo'. "Gio", whether at the beginning or end of a word is never pronounced "gee-oh" but "jo'"...

I see very little significant difference.

What's much worse IMO is the tendency of some English amateur singers to lose the 'i' of the pronoun 'io' completely when it's set to one note as so often in Monteverdi madrigals. The slightly intrusive 'i' in such as 'Striggio' has nothing of same power to irritate.

[french frank]

I see very little significant difference. [ … ]The slightly intrusive 'i' in such as 'Striggio' …

I think the comment referred to a very intrusive 'i'.

[jean]

I think the comment referred to a very intrusive 'i'.

Well, I didn't hear what Sir V. heard, so I'm guessing.

But I don't think Joe is quite right, either.

Let Lisa demonstrate.

Isn't there a smidgeon of a y sound there, that you could even think of as an extra syllable?

.

[french frank]

Well, I didn't hear what Sir V. heard.

But I don't think Joe is quite right, either.

Let Lisa demonstrate.

Joe may be a speedy approximation, but I think the 'i' becomes nothing more than a semi-vowel - 'y'. Lisa's Striggio is only two syllables.

[gurnemanz]

Re Striggio: I am instinctively sympathetic to anyone demanding native speaker authenticity in the pronunciation of the names of foreign composers, but there is inconsistency at large in this respect. The following come to mind:

in Italian double "t" is pronounced double: "Scarlat-ti" "Donizet-ti". (also of course "lat-te" not the crude but generally heard "laar tay" which i cannot bring myself to say)

an unstressed "o" in Russian is pronounced "a". A Russian says "Shastakovich". You don't often hear any announcers say that or anyone demand that they should.

"v" in German if pronounced "f". Germans say "Beethofen". Bach has a short "ah" and a guttural "ch" as in Scottish "loch".

Many other examples would be available.

[jean]

Joe may be a speedy approximation, but I think the 'i' becomes nothing more than a semi-vowel - 'y'. Lisa's Striggio is only two syllables.

Let's call it a semi-syllable, then!

[jean]

in Italian double "t" is pronounced double: "Scarlat-ti" "Donizet-ti".

The doppio is double the length of a single consonant, yes, but Italians don't completely break in the middle (as you seem to imply) the way the Poles do!

Here are some people comparing the two.

(also of course "lat-te" not the crude but generally heard "laar tay" which i cannot bring myself to say)

Absolutely with you there! This unfortunate effect is the result of RP speakers' exaggerated fear of seeming to be Northern.

[french frank]

Let's call it a semi-syllable, then!

You may call it that I don't recognise it as a term in Phonetics.

"Semivowels, by definition, contrast with vowels by being non-syllabic."

As for 'latte', never mind how people pronounce it - how could they drink it?!

Have I mentioned the story about my cousin's Australian boyfriend who asked for a latte in Italy and they brought him a glass of milk?

[Sir Velo]

I see very little significant difference.

Try telling that to an Italian!

[jean]

My Italian friends and I talk of little else.

[kernelbogey]

Isn't there a smidgeon of a y sound there

I'd been thinking this too, but was waiting for Sir V to respond.... A cousin of mine was married to a Luciano: I'd say we pronounced this as 'Loochyahno' - but the 'y' sound is barely there. Could we call that a diphthong?

[vinteuil]

.

... or perhaps an iotacised A - like the iotacised U in mute, sometimes in lute, rarely in flute

[kernelbogey]

.

... or perhaps an iotacised A - like the iotacised U in mute, sometimes in lute, rarely in flute