Pronunciation watch

[Sir Velo]

I'm all for this.

As a matter of interest, what do the Germanisations of these names sound like? (I've often wondered before, how did the names sound to Strauss?)

The pronunciation of Don Jew'n (never heard Jew-Ann by the way!) and Don keyshott reflects the fact that this is a composition of a German, and reflects the German pronuciation. It just so happens to be roughly equivalent to the English in this case.

[Ockeghem's Razor]

Byron--

I want a hero, an uncommon want,
When every year and month sends forth a new one,
Till after cloying the gazettes with cant,
The age discovers he is not the true one.
Of such as these I should not care to vaunt;
I'll therefore take our ancient friend Don Juan.

[french frank]

Byron--

I want a hero, an uncommon want,
When every year and month sends forth a new one,
Till after cloying the gazettes with cant,
The age discovers he is not the true one.
Of such as these I should not care to vaunt;
I'll therefore take our ancient friend Don Juan.

On the other hand, there is a school of thought that Byron was writing a 'jokey rhyme', e.g. à la Alan Jay Lerner:

"Her English is too good", he said, "That clearly indicates that she is foreign.
Whereas others are instructed in their native language
English people aren't ['orren']."

But if so he didn't make himself clear enough, so I shall still say Jew'n.

[Ockeghem's Razor]

On the other hand, there is a school of thought that Byron was writing a 'jokey rhyme', e.g. à la Alan Jay Lerner:

"Her English is too good", he said, "That clearly indicates that she is foreign.
Whereas others are instructed in their native language
English people aren't ['or

But if so he didn't make himself clear enough, so I shall still say Jew'n.

I'd hazard a guess that Regency toffs from Harrow might well say 'new un' and thus we get Jew'n. Though anything was possible from a man who delighted in rhyming 'pukes in' and 'Euxine' and 'intellectual' and 'henpecked you all.'

PS We do have a recording of Browning reciting, and forgetting, 'How They Brought The Good News From Ghent To Aix' where he declaims " Can't remember me own varses", so Byron might well have been in a similar vein of pronunciation, indeed even more, as it were, pronounced.

[Richard Tarleton]

Prompted by a Lidl story in today's "Eye" - in Mallorca in May, I was attempting to give directions to a couple of birdwatchers from Dusseldorf to the Tucan Marsh in Alcudia, where a pair of black-necked grebes were nesting. You turn off at the Lidl roundabout. They were mystified - "where is this liddle roundabout?" When I said (thinking they were being particularly dense), you know, the German supermarket in Alcudia, they said, "Ah! Lidl", pronounced Lye-dl.

I don't think the BBC pronunciation unit are onto this one yet, in all the coverage of Tesco's woes.

[jean]

Are you sure they were German?

[Richard Tarleton]

Well, I chatted to them at some length, if not they were pretty convincing! I ran into them a few more times in different places, as one tends to do when birding in Mallorca...

[french frank]

The Czech first name Václav is pronounced Vatslaf, not Vaklav. I mention it merely ...

[jean]

Not unlike the Polish town of Wrocław, only I don't think Czech does the dark l.

[french frank]

Not unlike the Polish town of Wrocław, only I don't think Czech does the dark l.

Yes. So I now await Rocklaw on Radio 3 (no names!). Hungarian a non-Slav language which also has c=ts sound, as in Ferenc, utca.

[Pabmusic]

Yes. So I now await Rocklaw on Radio 3 (no names!). Hungarian a non-Slav language which also has c=ts sound, as in Ferenc, utca.

Just ignore the unpronounceable Slavic name (well, to me) and call it Breslau.

[french frank]

Just ignore the unpronounceable Slavic name (well, to me) and call it Breslau.

As in Bernard.

Vrrotswahff? A beautiful city, well worth pronouncing correctly (nice opera house) - in my view.

[jean]

Just ignore the unpronounceable Slavic name (well, to me) and call it Breslau.

NO! Don't ever do that! It's not a simple equivalent - it carries a political meaning.

I once saw a German car with a sticker reading

Danzig, Posen und Stettin
Deutsche Städte wie Berlin

My more sensitive German colleagues in Poland were very, very careful never to use the old German names.

[kea]

Polish is much harder to spell than pronounce, at least for me. I have to resort to reading from a card to correctly spell Włodzimierz Kotoński, but don't find his name difficult to say in the slightest.

[Pabmusic]

NO! Don't ever do that! It's not a simple equivalent - it carries a political meaning.

I once saw a German car with a sticker reading

Danzig, Posen und Stettin
Deutsche Städte wie Berlin
....

Oh dear! You can't escape'em, can you?