Pronunciation watch

[Roslynmuse]

Possibly Princess Di's slight tendency towards this has been influential. However, one of my primary school teachers in the 1950s, whose speech was otherwise impeccable, did it all the time.

Interesting.

As an aside to that, however, I mentioned Princess Diana to one of my undergraduate students a couple of months ago and was met with a blank look. I suppose that to anyone under the age of 21 or 22 she is a name and no more.

[Serial_Apologist]

Every time she says a word like boot, you & flute.

Prouncing "boot" that way is common in many parts of Lancashire - eg "Skule" - and is one of the distinguishing features of Lancashire from Yorkshire speak. Among posh people, particularly the public school-educated girls and women on Made in Chelsea it just comes across all pink and cutesy, like some kind of toddler speak.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Prouncing "boot" that way is common in many parts of Lancashire - eg "Skule" - and is one of the distinguishing features of Lancashire from Yorkshire speak. Among posh people, particularly the public school-educated girls and women on Made in Chelsea it just comes across all pink and cutesy, like some kind of toddler speak.

Exactly. The teacher I referred to lived in N.E. Cheshire.

[jean]

This is a fairly common, recent phenomenon - not just in speech but in young (training) singers too. In the choirs I work with I'm forever trying to get rid of that sound. The irony is that whenever it's required - in French, as you suggest, or with the German ü sound (not quite the same but similar enough for our purposes) - they can't do it!

The best way to get the French u or German ü is to form your lips as if you were going to say oo and then say ee instead. I suspect some people find it difficult (and they do!) because they're not hearing the sound.

But I suspect the phenomenon we're talking about here is rather the result of keeping your mouth in an ee rictus while saying oo.

The same tendency gives hice for house.

[vinteuil]

Prouncing "boot" that way is common in many parts of Lancashire - eg "Skule" .

.. so "boot" wd be pronounced in the same way as "Bute"?

Ca'n't say I have heard C Burton - Hill go that far : will have to listen more attentively to what she says... :groan emoticon:

As for "flute" - I'm sure we have had discussion on these Boards regarding the appropriate degree of iotacism in English for words such as lute (lioot/loot), flute (flioot/floot), suit (sioot/sooot) &c- and I thought that the iotacised form was now considered passé ... [ Wch is prob'ly why I wd tend to prefer it... ]


A moot issue - others may be less mute...

[Roslynmuse]

The best way to get the French u or German ü is to form your lips as if you were going to say oo and then say ee instead. I suspect some people find it difficult (and they do!) because they're not hearing the sound.

But I suspect the phenomenon we're talking about here is rather the result of keeping your mouth in an ee rictus while saying oo.

The same tendency gives hice for house.

For singers it's often a case of having too high a tongue. Try saying 'oo' with a flat tongue and then attempt to make the same sound with it slightly raised. Working in Manchester as I do this may be a default position!

[Roslynmuse]

And I'm reminded of The Pirates of Penzance -

For when threatened with emeutes
And your heart is in your boots

[Serial_Apologist]

The best way to get the French u or German ü is to form your lips as if you were going to say oo and then say ee instead. I suspect some people find it difficult (and they do!) because they're not hearing the sound.

But I suspect the phenomenon we're talking about here is rather the result of keeping your mouth in an ee rictus while saying oo.

The same tendency gives hice for house.

That's it! that's it!!

[Don Petter]

Certain presenters seem unable to pronounce the sound "oo".

Clemency Burton-Hill is one. Using the the French for "you" as an example, she invariably uses the "oo" as in "tu" rather than as in "vous". It sounds affected, as though she is ashamed of sounding too posh.

I recall remarking about this vowel quirk some time ago with reference to her predecessor (forgotten her name already).

'We have just been listening tee ...'

[Serial_Apologist]

I recall remarking about this vowel quirk some time ago with reference to her predecessor (forgotten her name already).

'We have just been listening tee ...'

No one followed up when I brought it to attention here a couple of years ago, either, Don. Clearly we've earned out spurs, somehow!

[Ockeghem's Razor]

My pronunciation of 'book' always convulsed my pupils at a large school for boys in Sarf Lunnon --and my accent is akin to that of Dr Cameron, Arden House, Tannochbrae rather than that of Rab C Nesbitt.

[french frank]

I know it's below the belt to criticise professional (or, more likely, proffessional) classical music presenters for their foreign pronunciation. But they only have to ask the Pronunciation Unit to get at least an approximation that will be generally understood. But Lay Fate Deb means what? Clue: it's by Rammo.

[Roslynmuse]

I know it's below the belt to criticise professional (or, more likely, proffessional) classical music presenters for their foreign pronunciation. But they only have to ask the Pronunciation Unit to get at least an approximation that will be generally understood. But Lay Fate Deb means what? Clue: it's by Rammo.

A cup-bearer from Essex?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I know it's below the belt to criticise professional (or, more likely, proffessional) ….

Naughty!

[french frank]

A cup-bearer from Essex?

The Doings of Deborah, or What Debbie Did Next?