Pronunciation watch

[ardcarp]

Donald MacLeod looks at how Poulenc's tastes were shaped in the high salons of Parry

...and Poo Lank is an anomaly for native French speakers!

[french frank]

On my first trip to France when I was 15, I was sleepwalking on the night train to Grenoble. When the train arrived at Lyon, I stepped out of the train on to the platform, and saw the sign "LYON". I thought this was a mistake, having seen it written as "Lyons" in atlases. However, the shock woke me up and I scrambled back on to the train, and avoided being stranded, alone and confused.

I never misspelt it again.

I think the s on the end of Lyons was pronounced at one time, as it was at the end of Marseilles: So "One of the more recent losses is Marseilles, so spelled (and pronounced “Mar-SAYLES”) until well past the middle of the twentieth century. A Merriam-Webster Geographical Dictionary from 1966 gives “Marseilles” as the only recognized spelling in English, and “Mar-SAYLES” as the only recognized pronunciation." That's the USA (I presume) and I doubt if the pronunciation continued as late as 1966 over here.

I've checked that a Latin locative ending in -is was (according to E. Bourciez) the origin of the final s in French placenames, as the Roman names (Massilia, Lugdunum) didn't end in s. Why it was dropped in some cases but not in others, I can't guess.

[Bryn]

In a trail for The Magical Magyars: Keeping the Wolf Out, a crime drama set in Hungary, to be broadcast on Radio 4 this afternoon, "Magyar" was pronounced "Mag-yar". One would hope that setting such a drama in Hungary, they might at least teach the actors how to pronounce the name of that county's main language.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

In a trail for The Magical Magyars: Keeping the Wolf Out, a crime drama set in Hungary, to be broadcast on Radio 4 this afternoon, "Magyar" was pronounced "Mag-yar". One would hope that setting such a drama in Hungary, they might at least teach the actors how to pronounce the name of that county's main language.

Yes indeed. But I do think it’s strange that certain places still seem to have non-native or discontinued names in use (Florence/Londres), whilst others (Peking/Bombay) have been updated.

[french frank]

In a trail for The Magical Magyars: Keeping the Wolf Out, a crime drama set in Hungary, to be broadcast on Radio 4 this afternoon, "Magyar" was pronounced "Mag-yar". One would hope that setting such a drama in Hungary, they might at least teach the actors how to pronounce the name of that county's main language.

There used to be (and for all I know still is) a thing called a 'Mag-yar sleeve'. I heard the phrase and although I've never been a knitter I did understand that it meant a kind of sloping seam at the shoulder of a pullover. The main point - I would say - is that listeners understand what is being referred to, which they might not in the case of Mawdjar.

Come to think of it, they might not understand Mag-yar either …

[Padraig]

Come to think of it, they might not understand Mag-yar either …

Now, now, f f. A few of us have never been to the shores of Hungarian pedantry, and some of us are all agog at that previously unheard pronunciation, 'Mawdjar', that trips off the tongue, elsewhere, but the common 'Magyar' is indeed understandable to us dunderheads who also stand and stare, though we are not necessarily knowledgeable of the lore of knitting.

[Mario]

Yes indeed. But I do think it’s strange that certain places still seem to have non-native or discontinued names in use (Florence/Londres), whilst others (Peking/Bombay) have been updated.

I was surprised to discover, last time I was in Mumbai pre-Covid, that the locals still call it Bombay.

Mario

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I was surprised to discover, last time I was in Mumbai pre-Covid, that the locals still call it Bombay.

Mario

That's interesting. A BBC cricket commentator asked an Indian cricketer about a test match in Mumbai, and the respondent began, "In Bombay we..."

[french frank]

Now, now, f f. A few of us have never been to the shores of Hungarian pedantry, and some of us are all agog at that previously unheard pronunciation, 'Mawdjar', that trips off the tongue, elsewhere, but the common 'Magyar' is indeed understandable to us dunderheads who also stand and stare, though we are not necessarily knowledgeable of the lore of knitting.

I didn't know how dated it was - I go back a long way! The OED gives the 'British pronunciation' as /ˈmaɡjɑː/ and the US no better, so I think the BBC can be excused for sticking to that. In middle age I visited Hungary for the first time and discovered the pronunciation of Hegyeshalom (I went by train) and that if I wanted a day ticket I asked for a 'noppyedge'. Before that the Hungarians were Magg-yahrs.

[Ein Heldenleben]

That's interesting. A BBC cricket commentator asked an Indian cricketer about a test match in Mumbai, and the respondent began, "In Bombay we..."

In London we locals still call it Lunnon and where I come from Sarf Lunnon

[Serial_Apologist]

In London we locals still call it Lunnon and where I come from Sarf Lunnon

From an adoptive Sarf Lunnoner.

[Serial_Apologist]

That's interesting. A BBC cricket commentator asked an Indian cricketer about a test match in Mumbai, and the respondent began, "In Bombay we..."

Did he go on to say, "We call it a Bombay Duck if we're bowled out on the first ball"?

[Mario]

Mario

[Mario]

...and where I come from Sarf Lunnon

Probably a Palace fan then.

Mario

[Ein Heldenleben]

Probably a Palace fan then.

Mario

“When the red red Robin comes Bob Bob bobbing “ in fact . Palace is practically south coast