Pronunciation watch

[french frank]

Natalie Dessay kinda went in the opposite direction. Born Natalie Dessaix, she changed the spelling to avoid getting called Natalie DeSex outside France

Or even Natalie d'Essex?

[Serial_Apologist]

Or even Natalie d'Essex?

While we're on about French names ending with pronounced consonants, what about the Z on the end of Boulez? One would have thought he would be rhymeable with Patti Boulaye!

[french frank]

While we're on about French names ending with pronounced consonants, what about the Z on the end of Boulez? One would have thought he would be rhymeable with Patti Boulaye!

Way, way, way back the ending -ez would always have sounded the final z. It was just a question of different words taking different routes, and proper names tended to retain older pronunciations, presumably as this was handed down from generation to generation.

Where Boulez came from I've no idea. Plenty of place names Bou(l)lay(e) but nothing like Boulez.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Way, way, way back the ending -ez would always have sounded the final z. It was just a question of different words taking different routes, and proper names tended to retain older pronunciations, presumably as this was handed down from generation to generation.

Where Boulez came from I've no idea. Plenty of place names Bou(l)lay(e) but nothing like Boulez.

My particular bugbear is the prevelant Messyan when it should be Messiaen with the en as in enfant not an as in anchor!

I may have posted this before - this is a link to a how to pronounce French composers’ names spoken by a Frenchman

https://dictioncorner.wordpress.com/2014/01/31/how-do-you-pronounce-messiaen-anyway-a-quick-guide-to-french-composers-names/

There’s also this YouTube guide given by an American with a very good French accent (and scary lipstick)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9mg31B7FxI

[Padraig]

There’s also this YouTube guide given by an American with a very good French accent (and scary lipstick)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9mg31B7FxI

What if they were to whisper des mots doux in your ear?

[LMcD]

When mentioning the 'Prix de Rome', Petroc rhymed the last word with 'foam' - should it not perhaps rhyme with 'tom'? I believe the last word in 'Tour de France' is usually pronounced in the French manner.

[Padraig]

When mentioning the 'Prix de Rome', Petroc rhymed the last word with 'foam' - should it not perhaps rhyme with 'tom'? I believe the last word in 'Tour de France' is usually pronounced in the French manner.

I think you're right, McD, but don't forget to mind your r.

[edashtav]

I think you're right, McD, but don't forget to mind your r.

And, don’t forget read-only memory [ROM].

[french frank]

When mentioning the 'Prix de Rome', Petroc rhymed the last word with 'foam' - should it not perhaps rhyme with 'tom'? I believe the last word in 'Tour de France' is usually pronounced in the French manner.

French and English have completely different phonetic systems where few of the letters/sounds have exactly the same articulation. So an English 'Pree duh Rome' sounds (to my ear) slightly more acceptable that a hybrid 'Pree duh Romm'.

[Bella Kemp]

When mentioning the 'Prix de Rome', Petroc rhymed the last word with 'foam' - should it not perhaps rhyme with 'tom'? I believe the last word in 'Tour de France' is usually pronounced in the French manner.

We say Paris and not Paree, but Lyon is Lyon and not Lion, so surely however we say 'Prix de Rome' can scarcely matter. But then generally I find concern for what may or may not be 'correct' pronunciation a little bizarre.

[Serial_Apologist]

We say Paris and not Paree, but Lyon is Lyon and not Lion, so surely however we say 'Prix de Rome' can scarcely matter. But then generally I find concern for what may or may not be 'correct' pronunciation a little bizarre.

"Donald MacLeod looks at how Poulenc's tastes were shaped in the high salons of Parry".

Announcing today's COTW episode on Poulenc, just now.

[gurnemanz]

We say Paris and not Paree, but Lyon is Lyon and not Lion, so surely however we say 'Prix de Rome' can scarcely matter. But then generally I find concern for what may or may not be 'correct' pronunciation a little bizarre.

Often no rhyme or reason in these matters: We call Köln by its French name, Cologne, but pronounce it in an English way. By analogy with what we do to Boulogne, it would be "Coloin".

[french frank]

We say Paris and not Paree, but Lyon is Lyon and not Lion

'We' used to speak of 'the Gulf of Lyons' (pron. Lions), I think during my lifetime, though I'm not sure about that. Fashions change. The final 's' was common on the end of place names: Angers, Poitiers, Nantes, Limoges, Tours, Moulins. I can't remember whether it was a locative or something else

[gurnemanz]

'We' used to speak of 'the Gulf of Lyons' (pron. Lions), I think during my lifetime, though I'm not sure about that. Fashions change. The final 's' was common on the end of place names: Angers, Poitiers, Nantes, Limoges, Tours, Moulins. I can't remember whether it was a locative or something else

.... with a silent s, unlike Reims, British version being denasalised to Reems.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The final 's' was common on the end of place names: Angers, Poitiers, Nantes, Limoges, Tours, Moulins. I can't remember whether it was a locative or something else

On my first trip to France when I was 15, I was sleepwalking on the night train to Grenoble. When the train arrived at Lyon, I stepped out of the train on to the platform, and saw the sign "LYON". I thought this was a mistake, having seen it written as "Lyons" in atlases. However, the shock woke me up and I scrambled back on to the train, and avoided being stranded, alone and confused.

I never misspelt it again.