Pronunciation watch

[Pabmusic]

Yes but they also call a zed a zee!

That's actually different. Zed came into English with the Normans (OE didn't use it) - as zède, ultimately from zeta. So it's not surprising that we said zed. Except not all of us did. Very quickly the alternative zee arose (presumably analagous to bee, cee, dee, etc.). This was especially common in East Anglia, so it's no surprise that the Pilgrim Fathers took it to New England, since the bulk of them were from there. Zed was commonly used in the South, until the influence of New Englander Noah Webster took over in the 19th century. He just adored telling people how they must spell and pronounce things.

[Pabmusic]

Next Christmas I shall listen out for "Peace on earth and mercy mahld/ God and sinners reconcahld"

But if we're pedantic - and why not be? - mild and reconciled have very different origins. Mild is Germanic (cf Dutch mild and German mild). ME was milde. In all these the combination 'mild' is a single cluster, representing a single syllable.

Reconciled (or -ciled anyway) is a modern elision of two syllables (cil-ed). So we surely can allow different pronunciations.

[LeMartinPecheur]

But if we're pedantic - and why not be? - mild and reconciled have very different origins. Mild is Germanic (cf Dutch mild and German mild). ME was milde. In all these the combination 'mild' is a single cluster, representing a single syllable.

Reconciled (or -ciled anyway) is a modern elision of two syllables (cil-ed). So we surely can allow different pronunciations.

My point - if any - was that rhymes can influence pronunciation. Change one, as stated for weather forecasters, and the other comes under pressure, at least a little bit. (Nuff said?)

[Pabmusic]

My point - if any - was that rhymes can influence pronunciation. Change one, as stated for weather forecasters, and the other comes under pressure, at least a little bit. (Nuff said?)

Here's a stick:
________

Which end is which? I can't tell...

:)

[Serial_Apologist]

Here's a stick:
________

Which end is which? I can't tell...

:)

The beginning is the end you can get hold of.

[french frank]

Well, I thought I'd posted this already, but it seems not I'll try again (hoorah for the Auto Save):

But if we're pedantic - and why not be? - mild and reconciled have very different origins.

I don't think a (very) different origin necessarily means the pronunciation will differ. If anything, pronunciations come together (time/thyme, right/rite): spellings differ.

Mild is Germanic (cf Dutch mild and German mild). ME was milde. In all these the combination 'mild' is a single cluster, representing a single syllable.

Reconciled (or -ciled anyway) is a modern elision of two syllables (cil-ed). So we surely can allow different pronunciations.

To your last sentence, yes, of course we can allow different pronunciations, particularly over such slight differences, but the reasons for the differences are interesting to consider - at least to linguists/phoneticians. And I do come back to my original point: in 'standard English' (tbd), long vowels are diphtongs, unlike, for example, French: English ā (as in tame) and French é are not the same sound. ā is a diphthong, é is not.

[vinteuil]

The beginning is the end you can get hold of.

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcfPr4IN2MM

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4i_vbXekkE

.

[Serial_Apologist]

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcfPr4IN2MM

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4i_vbXekkE

.

That Eliot quote reminds me of the Zen master who, on being read Jesus's words regarding taking no thought for the morrow, perked up in delight and proclaimed, "Whoever wrote those words must have been close to Enlightenment!"

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So we have a snooker player who has beaten Ronnie O'Sullivan in this year's World Snooker Championship. Some commentators pronounce his name "Cayhill", as they do with the footballer. Others say "Carhill", which is the way I understood to be the way the soprano Theresa Cahill's name to be pronounced.

There are three ways to pronounce "Botham":
1. rhyming with Gotham (City), which is the way Ian Botham's teammates pronounced it, and the way the excellent Bothams of Whitby pronounce it;
2. with a soft "th" as in "bother" - the way an estate agent of that name in Chesterfield pronounced it;
3. as the BBC pronounced the cricketer's name - and it kind of stuck - as in "both".

[Sir Velo]

So we have a snooker player who has beaten Ronnie O'Sullivan in this year's World Snooker Championship. Some commentators pronounce his name "Cayhill", as they do with the footballer. Others say "Carhill", which is the way I understood to be the way the soprano Theresa Cahill's name to be pronounced.

There are three ways to pronounce "Botham":
1. rhyming with Gotham (City), which is the way Ian Botham's teammates pronounced it, and the way the excellent Bothams of Whitby pronounce it;
2. with a soft "th" as in "bother" - the way an estate agent of that name in Chesterfield pronounced it;
3. as the BBC pronounced the cricketer's name - and it kind of stuck - as in "both".

You've forgotten the fourth mildly ribald way, as spoken by those from the sub continent.

[LezLee]

At school we had a teacher called Mrs Botham - pronounced Bo-tham. She had reputedly changed it from Winterbotham - pronounced Winterbottom. An Irish acquaintance of mine pronounced his name 'Ca (as in cat) hill' with the 'h' almost silent.

[Serial_Apologist]

You've forgotten the fourth mildly ribald way, as spoken by those from the sub continent.

I wouldn't botham myself, not particularly liking the bloke.

[Padraig]

An Irish acquaintance of mine pronounced his name 'Ca (as in cat) hill' with the 'h' almost silent.

I would say your acquaintance was quite correct - and that is the way it is pronounced hereabouts.

But a further confirmation could be in the original Irish form 'Cathail'. In spoken Irish you would not hear the 't', though it is written. The 'h' after the 't' is the silencer. Native Irish speakers would probably manage to muddy the sound in their inimitable way to indicate the missing 't', but Cahill will do for us native English speakers.

[Stanfordian]

TV presenters, often sports presenters, who pronounce Wembley Stadium as Wem-ber-ley, as goes the football chant.

[Oakapple]

The conductor Bramwell Tovey pronounces his name TOE-vee, but I knew someone with that name who called himself TUV-ee. Does anyone know how the musicologist Donald Tovey said his name?