Pronunciation watch

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have just bought a pair of shoes, very expertly fitted by a young man who really knew his podiatry.
However, I found him difficult to understand because he had the common habit of speaking rapidly in a manner which elided whole syllables from words.
Do others have the same problem understanding some young people's speech?

Oh, yes.

And some middle-aged and elderly people's speech, too.

[kernelbogey]

Oh, yes.

And some middle-aged and elderly people's speech, too.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

OK, BBC presenters. Try saying "Gluck".

No, not Glerk, Glack or Glock, or any transitional possibility between any of these. Pronounce it the way they do in Germany.

Ah, you've nearly got it. Now do the same for book, took, good, hood.
Oh, dear, you're hopeless at this. Try again, but this time open your mouth at least one centimetre when you do it.

That's better. Now we'll try a different one: tune.

NO!! You are not a French speaker, pronouncing the "u" like you would in lune, plume, pupitre. It's a long 'oo" sound. Use those facial muscles and pull your lips inwards to make a circle, and then say "oo"



What brought this on?

SM-P introducing "In Tyeen" today.

[oddoneout]

That's better. Now we'll try a different one: tune.

NO!! You are not a French speaker, pronouncing the "u" like you would in lune, plume, pupitre. It's a long 'oo" sound. Use those facial muscles and pull your lips inwards to make a circle, and then say "oo"
What brought this on?
SM-P introducing "In Tyeen" today.

Now you see I wouldn't use "oo" but "ew", as in knew.
And I've just realised the extent to which I have lost facility with " and ' - too much exposure to imaginative usage presumably.

[Richard Tarleton]

Just been listening to Sarah W on EC plugging Ethel Smyth's "The Boatswain's Mate" pronouncing it (several times) as Boat-swain

(But I see that acc. to this, it actually is pronounced Boat-swain in American English.)

[french frank]

Just been listening to Sarah W on EC plugging Ethel Smyth's "The Boatswain's Mate" pronouncing it (several times) as Boat-swain

(But I see that acc. to this, it actually is pronounced Boat-swain in American English.)

Strange - I was discussing it with my brother (who hadn't heard of it) yesterday (vis-à-vis Ethel Smith) and was automatically saying bo'sun. Must be my age …

[Pabmusic]

Strange - I was discussing it with my brother (who hadn't heard of it) yesterday (vis-à-vis Ethel Smith) and was automatically saying bo'sun. Must be my age …

No. It's probably that you were brought up with Trafalgar, Treasure Island, and G & S.

[vinteuil]

(But I see that acc. to this, it actually is pronounced Boat-swain in American English.)

... but the Americans seem to get it right with coxswain -

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/cox?q=coxswain

[french frank]

No. It's probably that you were brought up with Trafalgar, Treasure Island, and G & S.

Which reminds me, one used occasionally to hear people stressing the first syllable, which I thought was the posh person's way to pronounce it (as in the Bettle of TRAffulgah). But this isn't like Spanish Tárrega. On checking, there's no accent, so (RichardT will correct me if necessary) it would be stressed on the final syllable (not the middle one) - Tràfalgár. So I wonder whether the 'posh' way was simply making the initial, secondary stress too strong, and thus the primary stress (and English-like swallowing the unstressed syllable)?

[vinteuil]

Trafalgar : as wiki reminds us, "The name is of Arabic origin, Taraf al-Ghar (طرف الغار 'cape of the cave/laurel'). Or corresponding possibly to Taraf al-Gharb (طرف الغرب 'cape of the west'). In both cases, taraf (طرف) literally means 'edge' or 'extremity' and hence refers to a promontory (edge of the land). In modern Arabic, however, the place is sometimes re-transcribed as al-Taraf al-Aghar (الطرف الأغر)"

The normal English stress on the second syllable of course bears no relation at all to the etymological root - the definite article al wd not be stressed.

A 'posh' pronunciation which avoided the stress on the second syllable wd have the advantage of respecting the etymological roots...

[Padraig]

So I wonder whether the 'posh' way was simply making the initial, secondary stress too strong, and thus the primary stress (and English-like swallowing the unstressed syllable)?

See: 'Posh' English pronunciation of 'Londonderry'. Whereas we would say 'Londonderry, they would say Londond'ry. Of course, some of us would just say Derry, but that would be a political matter, that will not go away.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

See: 'Posh' English pronunciation of 'Londonderry'. Whereas we would say 'Londonderry, they would say Londond'ry.

Interesting - I've always pronounced it (and, I think, heard it pronounced) with the emphasis on the first syllable.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

See: 'Posh' English pronunciation of 'Londonderry'. Whereas we would say 'Londonderry, they would say Londond'ry. Of course, some of us would just say Derry, but that would be a political matter, that will not go away.

"Posh" English is generally lazy English. I was watching Michael Heseltine on the news, and his mouth was almost frozen, like a ventriloquist.

[vinteuil]

Interesting - I've always pronounced it (and, I think, heard it pronounced) with the emphasis on the first syllable.

... there's always a stress on the first - London - the question is whether you also put a stress on the first syllable of the second element - derry.

The choice between the London derrière or the family of Vane-Tempest-Stewart, Marquesses of Londonderry [ (/ˈlʌndəndriː/ lun-dən-dree) ]

[vinteuil]

"Posh" English is generally lazy English..

... a lazy assertion, and one you have used before.