Pronunciation watch

[jean]

Seeing Solidarnost so spelt, I thought we must have given up on the complexities of the Polish Solidarność.

But it turns out that's a transliteration from Russian, and they messed with it first:

Solidarnost (Солидарность, Russian for "Solidarity", named after the Polish Solidarność) is a Russian liberal democratic political movement...

But why didn't the Russians use the letter щ, as in Хрущёв (Khrushchev)?

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[Sir Velo]

Since becoming aware of what I believed to be the 'authentic' local pronunciation, I've endeavoured to speak somethiing like Ferney's example above, rather than the natural (common) southern pronunciation NEWcahssel. Just wondering now whether that matters. The comparison is with another European language, where I would consider it my obligation to pronounce (say) a French word in an English sentence as a Frenchman would - in other words 'correctiness', or perhaps 'respect'.

Does it matter?

(Should I just get out more?)

Yes, we have a similar problem down these parts with Bath; "bath" or "Barth". I would tend to go with what you feel comfortable with. Remember how ridiculous Michael Portillo sounded pronouncing Newcastle as if he were a born and bred Geordie?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, we have a similar problem down these parts with Bath; "bath" or "Barth". I would tend to go with what you feel comfortable with. Remember how ridiculous Michael Portillo sounded pronouncing Newcastle as if he were a born and bred Geordie?

- if NyCAssle (or "Barth" or "GLASSge") sounds forced, it draws attention to itself more than NEWcastle/Bath/Glazgo.

[Sir Velo]

- if NyCAssle (or "Barth" or "GLASSge") sounds forced, it draws attention to itself more than NEWcastle/Bath/Glazgo.

Quite. And logically, if its Noo'cassle - it follows it must be Barnard Cassle; Alnwick Cassle; Dunstanburgh Cassle; Lindisfarne Cassle; Bamburgh Cassle etc.

[Word]

If English has adopted/accepted a distinctly English pronunciation, I would use that pronunciation when speaking English

So that'll be NEWcahssel then?

[jean]

No, that's just RP.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Quite. And logically, if its Noo'cassle - it follows it must be Barnard Cassle; Alnwick Cassle; Dunstanburgh Cassle; Lindisfarne Cassle; Bamburgh Cassle etc.

Well - strictly speaking, locals pronounce "Barnard Castle" as "Barney".

[french frank]

So that'll be NEWcahssel then?

Yes, I say NEWcahssel, RP or not. English regional accents are a different case from foreign languages, though the same thing applies. To my ears it sounds silly if an RP speaker litters, er, their speech with regional pronunciations.

[ahinton]

No, that's just RP.

One question inevitably surrounding RP is who receives it from whom, why, when and for what reasons - and how did it ever become "RP" in the first place (insofar as it might be seen by some to be so, for whatever reason/s or none)...

[kernelbogey]

One question inevitably surrounding RP is who receives it from whom, why, when and for what reasons - and how did it ever become "RP" in the first place (insofar as it might be seen by some to be so, for whatever reason/s or none)...

One received it from John Snagge, because that was what one did.

[vinteuil]

One question inevitably surrounding RP is who receives it from whom, why, when and for what reasons - and how did it ever become "RP" in the first place (insofar as it might be seen by some to be so, for whatever reason/s or none)...

... "received" as in "received wisdom".

It's a term that's problematic for many linguisticians too -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation

[gurnemanz]

I taught English in Germany in the early 70s and remember the pronunciation of an older German colleague who had learnt English in the 30s via RP, which must then have been regarded as the standard form of English to be learnt. He tried to tell me that "man" was pronounced "men" and "men" was pronounced "min".

[jean]

...He tried to tell me that "man" was pronounced "men" and "men" was pronounced "min".

I taughty English in Poland in the 1990s and all my Polish colleagues - and therefore my students, too - were under the influence of the renowned Phonetics department of the University of Poznań. Possibly because at that time there had not yet been much opportunity for Poles to study abroad, their idea of RP was very old-fashioned indeed.

I remember that once in a class I had to make reference to domestic fowl. The students were convinced I was talking about the things on the ends of my arms.

(Have you heard the one about the elderly professor who left his lecture notes at home? I'm sure I've told it here.)

[vinteuil]

I taught English in Germany in the early 70s and remember the pronunciation of an older German colleague who had learnt English in the 30s via RP, which must then have been regarded as the standard form of English to be learnt. He tried to tell me that "man" was pronounced "men" and "men" was pronounced "min".

... hed he bin a brine shirt?

[ bart, bitter thet then a bleck shirt ... ]





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[ahinton]

... "received" as in "received wisdom".

It's a term that's problematic for many linguisticians too -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation

Many thanks for this.

One interesting factor that those such as our Mr Grew would doubtless see fit to overlook is that of the "Queen's English", in that the manner in which the Queen speaks English today (in terms of pronunciation) is materially different to the way in which she did so at the time of her accession, even if some vowels remain a little strangulated.