The South Bank Show is coming back!!

[Flosshilde]

But I still wouldn't accept sweeties from a sinister old man.

[Chris Newman]

I have had the highest respect for Keith Clarke as one of our greatest and best informed music journalists ever since he was a sleeve note writer for Decca and satirist in the 1970s Promenader's magazine Consort and now editor-in-chief of a fine series of Journals but nobody will persuade me to support Sky for reasons I have made perfectly clear. Dare I say it is Pie in the Sky?

[Mr Pee]

But I still wouldn't accept sweeties from a sinister old man.

What on earth has that got to do with the price of fish??

Quite honestly if we all applied this sort of holier than thou moral judgement to every purchase we made, we'd end up living a meagre existence indeed. Your internet provider, that enables you to download classical concerts- how much do you know about their business activites? Who knows what unscrupulous deals may have been done to get them where they are today? The car you drive- those big motor manufacturers are all whiter than white, aren't they?? The big supermarkets where you do your shopping- how many small traders have gone to the wall because of them?? And how many farmers and small producers have been squeezed to the wall by the superstore juggernaut?? And the newspaper you read- are you sure they've never done anything remotely illegal, or dubious?

If you want to live in some sort of imaginary morally superior universe to the rest of us, that's up to you, but don't delude yourselves that your choices are any better than anybody elses.

News International/ Sky have been the most favoured target for the morally smug for quite some time now, and the News of The World scandal has just added fuel to the fire. They'll move onto some other target before long.

[Chris Newman]

What on earth has that got to do with the price of fish??

Quite honestly if we all applied this sort of holier than thou moral judgement to every purchase we made, we'd end up living a meagre existence indeed. Your internet provider, that enables you to download classical concerts- how much do you know about their business activites? Who knows what unscrupulous deals may have been done to get them where they are today? The car you drive- those big motor manufacturers are all whiter than white, aren't they?? The big supermarkets where you do your shopping- how many small traders have gone to the wall because of them?? And how many farmers and small producers have been squeezed to the wall by the superstore juggernaut?? And the newspaper you read- are you sure they've never done anything remotely illegal, or dubious?

If you want to live in some sort of imaginary morally superior universe to the rest of us, that's up to you, but don't delude yourselves that your choices are any better than anybody elses.

News International/ Sky have been the most favoured target for the morally smug for quite some time now, and the News of The World scandal has just added fuel to the fire. They'll move onto some other target before long.

You keep telling us it is smug to have scruples.

What is your alternative? Have none at all? Is that how you want the world to live?

You have defeated your own argument. It has no logic.

[Panjandrum]

But I still wouldn't accept sweeties from a sinister old man.

I doubt he'll be offering you any as Rupe doesn't do freebies.

[Panjandrum]

You keep telling us it is smug to have scruples.

What is your alternative? Have none at all? Is that how you want the world to live?

You have defeated your own argument. It has no logic.

So, everything you buy has the freetrade sticker on it does it?

[Flosshilde]

I doubt he'll be offering you any as Rupe doesn't do freebies.

As I think someone suggested in reply to the 'isn't Sky wonderful' puffs.

If you sup with the devil make sure you've got a long spoon.

[Panjandrum]

You keep telling us it is smug to have scruples.

What is your alternative? Have none at all? Is that how you want the world to live?

You have defeated your own argument. It has no logic.

I trust you don't have any Furtwangler, Karajan, Kna or Legge recordings in your collection. And, those DG execs, do you know their war record?

[VodkaDilc]

But I still wouldn't accept sweeties from a sinister old man.

I'm reminded of Percy Sugden in Coronation Street (some decades ago), complaining that another character had a certain brand of car and that was 'the car that Hitler used to drive.'

I just found this on the Sky Arts Ignition website mentioned above. It sounds pretty reasonable to me, though others might find sinister meanings:

People are often surprised when they find out that Sky ‘does’ the arts. The inevitable question then follows – ‘But, why?’

The answer is pretty simple – we love the arts and culture and we think they are part of the fabric of life. And we know millions of people across the UK and Ireland agree with us.

That’s the reason Sky Arts came into being. We recognised that television just wasn’t covering the arts in the way it used to. Arts had been marginalised in schedules, hours were reduced and programmes placed in late night slots with the same faces discussing the same issues.

So we thought – what can we do to change that? How can we bring people more of what they enjoy? And how can we bring it to life, beyond TV screens?

We are completely dedicated to doing more, and doing it better - and we want to continue to work with arts organisations and other partners to ensure that we’re bringing the arts to people on screen, on the ground and on-line.

[Chris Newman]

I doubt he'll be offering you any as Rupe doesn't do freebies.

The Times is free in many Holiday Inns hotels I have stayed in.

[VodkaDilc]

I trust you don't have any Furtwangler, Karajan, Kna or Legge recordings in your collection. And, those DG execs, do you know their war record?

Or Wagner or Richard Strauss.

[Chris Newman]

I'm reminded of Percy Sugden in Coronation Street (some decades ago), complaining that another character had a certain brand of car and that was 'the car that Hitler used to drive.'

I just found this on the Sky Arts Ignition website mentioned above. It sounds pretty reasonable to me, though others might find sinister meanings:

People are often surprised when they find out that Sky ‘does’ the arts. The inevitable question then follows – ‘But, why?’

The answer is pretty simple – we love the arts and culture and we think they are part of the fabric of life. And we know millions of people across the UK and Ireland agree with us.

That’s the reason Sky Arts came into being. We recognised that television just wasn’t covering the arts in the way it used to. Arts had been marginalised in schedules, hours were reduced and programmes placed in late night slots with the same faces discussing the same issues.

So we thought – what can we do to change that? How can we bring people more of what they enjoy? And how can we bring it to life, beyond TV screens?

We are completely dedicated to doing more, and doing it better - and we want to continue to work with arts organisations and other partners to ensure that we’re bringing the arts to people on screen, on the ground and on-line.

Oh, VodkaDilk,

The wonderful words of the advertising agent. It could be steam baked bread and all that smelly nostalgia.

[MrGongGong]

Please treat other members respectfully, even if you disagree with what they are saying; and please do not start topics or post messages which are designed to be provocative or which explicitly or implicitly target or disparage other members, individually or as a group.

hummmmmmm indeed Mrs T

Pot , kettle etc etc

I thought insulting jokes were ok with you MrP (you know like on Top Gear )

[Mr Pee]

As I think someone suggested in reply to the 'isn't Sky wonderful' puffs.

If you sup with the devil make sure you've got a long spoon.

It's called "business". Rupert Murdoch is not the Devil, he's a succesful businessman, which alone is enough to condemn him in some people's eyes. So given that Sky is a business, why on earth should anyone expect freebies?? Although when I signed up to Sky they did send me 100 pounds worth of Marks and Spencer vouchers....so does that make M+S complicit in the phone hacking scandal???.....

[Chris Newman]

In reply to Panjandrum's questions, one tries one's best to deal with life's moral dilemmas. I expect most large companies employ someone with a past criminal record. I hope that the activities of most Germans in the second world war have been forgiven as best can be by time: Furtwangler and Strauss were in no-win positions anyway. Here we are talking about dubious activities of the last few years, even almost up to the present. My main grouse in the message you have latched on to was with Mr Pee who brands those that try to do their best with names or descriptions like smug. Then when someone does the same to him he complains about being given a lack of respect. I must say that although you and VodkaDilc (apologies about the mispelling earlier) often disagree with me on this thread you are always both civil in your tones which I cannot say about Mr Pee.