The South Bank Show is coming back!!

[Mr Pee]

Murdoch is a political monster. Berlusconi was happy just to control Italy but Rupert M wants the world, if not for himself for his family. He is only interested in the Arts if it means extending his power which especially means smashing the BBC.

"Smashing the BBC"- or to put it another way, providing competition, which the BBC can either respond to or not. If the Beeb weren't slashing their funding for BBC4, marginalising their arts coverage, and reducing Radio 3 to Classic FM levels of inanity, perhaps I wouldn't need Sky Arts. There seems to be this idea that the BBC should somehow be immune to the sort of healthy competition that every other organisation in Britain has to contend with. And since when- outside the pages of the Guardian - has "succesful businessman" become "Bond Villain intent on World domination"?

Like ferneyhoughgeliebte I refuse to pay all that money to promote Murdoch. Putting a damn great disc on the front of my house is the same as flying a flag saying "I love News International" which I absolutely refuse to do. He treats everyone else (Milly Dowler's family and all the other people in the news at the Leveson Inquiry) as if they are dirt. Tonight I have watched the first part of Wagner's Ring Cycle on TV but not on Sky and have given the source on other threads to show that there is plenty out there to appreciate without feeding RM.

Putting a satellite dish on your house is not promoting News International- if you're really that bothered about it just tell the neighbours you've put it up so that you can get Freesat. Nobody will know the difference.

As for your tired point about NOTW, Leveson, et al, it's interesting how quickly the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" seems to get forgotten by the Anti-Murdoch lobby when it suits them. All we know for certain is that some tabloid journalists and editors were guilty of some pretty dreadful behaviour, which really shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody, and if you really think it was only NI papers that were doing this, well- wake up and smell the coffee......

[Panjandrum]

Putting a damn great disc on the front of my house is the same as flying a flag saying "I love News International" which I absolutely refuse to do.

Well, get cable then, and the neighbours won't know.

Seriously, there is a lot of sanctumonious clap-trap being dressed up as politically correct chattering class ideology. Does anyone here honestly belive that no labour voters have sky subscriptions? I neither care for Murdoch or his political allies (whomsoever they are) but like VodkaDilc and Mr Pee enjoy Sky Arts. Yesterday, Chailly, Gewandhaus in Lobgesang; Jurowski, LPO, in Beethovn 4& 7 (stirring performances) and this morning a sumptuous documentary on Lennie Bernstein.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Does anyone here honestly believe that no labour voters have sky subscriptions?

No.

Does anyone here (or anywhere else) honestly (or dishonestly) believe that anyone from the "politically correct chattering class" ideologists have actually suggested that there aren't?

Or that they even believe that Labour-supporting Sky subscribers are in any way relevant to the discussion?

[Chris Newman]

Sorry, Panjandrum,
I have cable but do not want Sky. I have just watched Jurowski at no charge by other means. You might find holding views different to your own sanctimonious (that is your privilege). I follow my conscience. No point in trying to convert me. And I would never join the Labour Party.

[Mr Pee]

this morning a sumptuous documentary on Lennie Bernstein.

And there was fascinating hour on Herbert Von Karajan as well!

[Flosshilde]

Seriously, there is a lot of sanctumonious clap-trap being dressed up as politically correct chattering class ideology.

I've no idea what this means - it sounds like a lot of Daily Mail buzz-words strung together. I'm not sure that panjandrum knows, either - if he (or she) does perhaps he/she would like to explain it to me.

I wouldn't subscribe to Sky because I don't want to put money into the Murdoch's pockets; I don't like the way in which he uses his media power to manipulate politicians & governments (not just in the UK); I don't like the way his newspapers break the law to help create & feed an appetite for salacious gossip; I don't like the way in which his newspapers harass people; I don't like the way in which he uses his millions to distort the market in broadcasting rights for sporting & other occasions (Mr Pee gleefully announced up-thread that Sky will have the rights to broadcast formula 1 racing) so that the BBC & ITV can't afford them, thus forcing people who want to watch them to subscribe to his channels. I believe that this has also contributed to the grossly obscene amount of money paid to footballers.

[amateur51]

As for your tired point about NOTW, Leveson, et al, it's interesting how quickly the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" seems to get forgotten by the Anti-Murdoch lobby when it suits them. All we know for certain is that some tabloid journalists and editors were guilty of some pretty dreadful behaviour, which really shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody, and if you really think it was only NI papers that were doing this, well- wake up and smell the coffee......

I can't blame you for not being up-to-speed on Leveson revelations, Mr Pee, because you probably get all your news from Murdoch sources

You do know that a former NoW journo told Leveson last week under oath that Andy Coulson brought phone-hacking to NoTW - that's the same Andy Coulson who was given "a second chance" by his mate Dave, don't you? And that Rebekah Wade knew all about the phone-hacking? that Rebekah Wade the NI employee of whom Roop said "she is my first priority"; and to whom he subsequently gave a handsome pay-off with continuous use of NI offices & NI chauffeur and car

http://www.brasscheck.com/heartfield/gallery.html

[amateur51]

Well, get cable then, and the neighbours won't know.

Seriously, there is a lot of sanctumonious clap-trap being dressed up as politically correct chattering class ideology. Does anyone here honestly belive that no labour voters have sky subscriptions? I neither care for Murdoch or his political allies (whomsoever they are) but like VodkaDilc and Mr Pee enjoy Sky Arts. Yesterday, Chailly, Gewandhaus in Lobgesang; Jurowski, LPO, in Beethovn 4& 7 (stirring performances) and this morning a sumptuous documentary on Lennie Bernstein.

http://www.brasscheck.com/heartfield/gallery.html

[John Skelton]

I believe that this has also contributed to the grossly obscene amount of money paid to footballers.

It's done that alright. I have sympathy with people who say that top level football died in England 1992 (the first year of the Premier League and BSkyB getting the broadcasting rights). As always, there's little evidence of the famous 'trickle down' effect, and staying in the club takes precedence over everything else.

More generally, cable and satellite TV have done cricket as a sport as against a money making enterprise no favours.

[VodkaDilc]

And there was fascinating hour on Herbert Von Karajan as well!

I've just been watching Simon Rattle conducting a concert of Rhapsodies (Delius, Chabrier, Rachmaninov, etc) with the Berlin Phil. Just watching it and enjoying it - not analysing the method by which it has reached my television. Apart from the joy of seeing a complete concert, what strikes me is how right the presentation is: no commentary at all, with a simple caption introducing the items. No over-paid BBC interviewers talking to other nonentities and no attempt to catch the floating viewer. If we want details of the music we all have access to information, whether it's Grove lurking on our shelves (I wish!), or the Penguin Dictionary of Music or (for younger folk) all sorts on online info!
It certainly satisfies me. (Before someone points it out, I'm sure the broadcast was not made by Sky itself - I don't really care.) I think it was televised last night; using Sky+ makes it so easy to record - as I do most Saturdays with Building a Library (on R3 - Sky Channel 0103).

[Mr Pee]

I've just been watching Simon Rattle conducting a concert of Rhapsodies (Delius, Chabrier, Rachmaninov, etc) with the Berlin Phil. Just watching it and enjoying it - not analysing the method by which it has reached my television. Apart from the joy of seeing a complete concert, what strikes me is how right the presentation is: no commentary at all, with a simple caption introducing the items. No over-paid BBC interviewers talking to other nonentities and no attempt to catch the floating viewer. If we want details of the music we all have access to information, whether it's Grove lurking on our shelves (I wish!), or the Penguin Dictionary of Music or (for younger folk) all sorts on online info!
It certainly satisfies me. (Before someone points it out, I'm sure the broadcast was not made by Sky itself - I don't really care.) I think it was televised last night; using Sky+ makes it so easy to record - as I do most Saturdays with Building a Library (on R3 - Sky Channel 0103).

I watched that as well- wonderful stuff, and I completely agree about the presentation. I loved the performance of the Debussy Rhapsody by the BPO principal clarinet. Real class.

[Panjandrum]

I've just been watching Simon Rattle conducting a concert of Rhapsodies (Delius, Chabrier, Rachmaninov, etc) with the Berlin Phil.

Darn it! How did I miss it? Scanning the schedules there are some treasurable concerts upcoming. I wonder whether SkyArts or BBC4 will be showing more concerts this Christmas? Silly me, I don't really need to ask do I?

[teamsaint]

I've no idea what this means - it sounds like a lot of Daily Mail buzz-words strung together. I'm not sure that panjandrum knows, either - if he (or she) does perhaps he/she would like to explain it to me.

I wouldn't subscribe to Sky because I don't want to put money into the Murdoch's pockets; I don't like the way in which he uses his media power to manipulate politicians & governments (not just in the UK); I don't like the way his newspapers break the law to help create & feed an appetite for salacious gossip; I don't like the way in which his newspapers harass people; I don't like the way in which he uses his millions to distort the market in broadcasting rights for sporting & other occasions (Mr Pee gleefully announced up-thread that Sky will have the rights to broadcast formula 1 racing) so that the BBC & ITV can't afford them, thus forcing people who want to watch them to subscribe to his channels. I believe that this has also contributed to the grossly obscene amount of money paid to footballers.

I agree with you in principle. If you really don't care how and why your news or entertainment is delivered, you are on a very slippery slope.
I do have a sky subscription, although I unsubscribe unless they let me have it half price.I am not really comfortable about it, but then I don't approve of much of what the bbc do either,(Like Nick "Robbo"robinsons lies about tax,) and i choose to pay the license fee.
Murdochs empire has indeed meant that football has been taken away from a lot of people who can't afford SKY.
at present I am thinking about not having a license and getting rid of SKY. Fed up of the propaganda, lies, and insultingly patronising content. Could buy £35 worth of CDs with the saved license fee and sky subs.

[Mr Pee]

I can't blame you for not being up-to-speed on Leveson revelations, Mr Pee, because you probably get all your news from Murdoch sources

You do know that a former NoW journo told Leveson last week under oath that Andy Coulson brought phone-hacking to NoTW - that's the same Andy Coulson who was given "a second chance" by his mate Dave, don't you? And that Rebekah Wade knew all about the phone-hacking? that Rebekah Wade the NI employee of whom Roop said "she is my first priority"; and to whom he subsequently gave a handsome pay-off with continuous use of NI offices & NI chauffeur and car

http://www.brasscheck.com/heartfield/gallery.html

None of which proves anything. But yet again, amateur, this should be on the other thread.

( No idea what that link is supposed to mean. Are you suggesting Hitler's phone was hacked?? I don't think even you can blame Murdoch for the rise of Nazism......then again......)

[John Skelton]

The listings for Sky Arts 2 (broadly the classical music channel) until 16th December:

http://www.skyarts.co.uk/skyarts/printer-friendly-listings-for-sky-arts-2-for-03-dec-09-dec/

http://www.skyarts.co.uk/skyarts/printer-friendly-listings-for-sky-arts-2-for-10-dec-16-dec/

Whether that justifies Mr Pee's

Here we have a broadcaster tripling its spending on the Arts, with a Channel that broadcasts a huge amount of classical music, dance, opera, and theatre- much of it live- while the BBC is heading in the opposite direction, dumbing down Radio 3, contemplating cuts to the BBC Orchestras, and cutting back on BBC4, and yet you somehow dissaprove because the broadcaster in question dares to make a profit? How else are they going to put all this money into their arts budget?

I doubt, but there you go. It does seem a bit disingenuous to throw in "the BBC ... contemplating cuts to the BBC Orchestras" when there isn't, that I know of, a Sky Orchestra, never mind orchestras. I'd imagine the presentation is unobtrusive because a fair proportion of the schedule is the equivalent of putting on a DVD of a concert or a recital (so all they'd need would be a continuity announcement). Whatever the criticisms of excessive BBC presentation (which I agree with, generally) that doesn't take much imagination or effort.

Note: I am not saying it's 'wrong' to enjoy watching Sky Arts. Or 'right'. Or either. Or neither. Or vice versa .