EU threat to natural remedies

[teamsaint]

I have used St John's Wort in the past, until I discovered that it compromised the action of my heart drugs. I had to resort to chocolate as an anti-depressant

I've tried echinacea ointment for cuts - had no effect at all.

i have no idea of the efficacy of all these things. Some work, some don't for some people. But I don't like restricting things just so that the big boys make more money.And I am certain that this is the agenda here.

[Flosshilde]

i have no idea of the efficacy of all these things. Some work, some don't for some people. But I don't like restricting things just so that the big boys make more money.And I am certain that this is the agenda here.

As you say, you have no idea of the efficacy of herbal medication - trouble is, neither does anyone else, which is why it's a good idea to have them trialled & tested, so that we do know what's effective & for what, and, more importantly, what impact they might have on other medication (herbal and 'conventional').

I don't know why the pharmaceutical companies would be interested in moving into herbal stuff - they keep busy enough & make massive profits by inventing new problems to develop new drugs for.

Do you think conventional drugs should be marketed without being licensed? Would you be happy taking something that hadn't been tested to make sure that it was safe, did what was claimed & didn't compromise other drugs?

(well, obviously if you've been taking herbal medicines then you are)

[teamsaint]

As you say, you have no idea of the efficacy of herbal medication - trouble is, neither does anyone else, which is why it's a good idea to have them trialled & tested, so that we do know what's effective & for what, and, more importantly, what impact they might have on other medication (herbal and 'conventional').

I don't know why the pharmaceutical companies would be interested in moving into herbal stuff - they keep busy enough & make massive profits by inventing new problems to develop new drugs for.

Do you think conventional drugs should be marketed without being licensed? Would you be happy taking something that hadn't been tested to make sure that it was safe, did what was claimed & didn't compromise other drugs?

(well, obviously if you've been taking herbal medicines then you are)

don't take these things at present. But I might want to. I am very suspicious indeed of the motives of those who want these things banned (or regulated at very high cost), when there is little evidence of any good reason to do so.

As regards licensing and testing of the conventional drugs industry, I am also highly suspicious of the methods used, the system that licenses these things, and many of the drugs that get through the system.

This stuff got licensed

.http://www.accutanesideeffects.net/ (also known as roaccutane.)

You really need VERY good reason to use this stuff !! And it gets prescribed for minor conditions.

My sons condition cleared up after using olive leaf extract.

[Mary Chambers]

Do you think conventional drugs should be marketed without being licensed? Would you be happy taking something that hadn't been tested to make sure that it was safe, did what was claimed & didn't compromise other drugs?

(well, obviously if you've been taking herbal medicines then you are)

Flosshilde is talking sense. The placebo effect is a wonderful thing, but gullible people are being conned about so-called 'natural' remedies, and homeopathy.

[Flosshilde]

An interesting link, teamsaint. Firstly, the site is from the USA & the licensing regulations are different to those here. You'll notice that the drug you highlight has very clear warnings about its use & side effects - would you find such clear warnings on the olive-leaf extract? I would also be a little suspicious of a site that carries adverts for 'herbal' remedies on the same page that has dire warnings about using another drug - it makes me wonder how independent and un-biased it is.

[umslopogaas]

Fascinating discussion. I was pondering on examples and came up with Cannabis sativa. As lots of people know, this is the source of the dope that hippies crumble into their roll-ups, man, but perhaps rather less people know that we grow large acreages of this plant quite legally in the UK because it is also a source of hemp fibre. Now, hippy types know that there is no point in raiding an East Anglian farmer's hemp field for a smoke, because you could smoke an acre of the stuff and would get nothing from it bar a bad cough. But a gram or two of Amsterdam best, that's a different matter.

So its important to know what you are taking. If I offer you Cannabis sativa without any qualifying detail, you have no way of knowing whether a cigarette full will have no effect whatsoever, or blow your head off. Both samples are Cannabis sativa, but further detail is necessary, and even important.

Its not the drug companies' duty to educate every member of the public about the importance of very complicated chemical names for active ingredients. The chain of duty says that it is their responsibility to abide by government-appointed testing regimes that are imposed to ensure that the drugs they sell, via the medical profession, are safe WHEN USED AS DIRECTED. As someone has already pointed out, you can kill yourself with a packet of paracetamol if you've a mind to do so. Its all down to dose: one will not cure your headache, two will, twenty will kill you. Because twenty paracetamol will kill you, should we therefore not allow the sale of paracetamol? I dont know, but I hope not, I dont mind drug companies making a profit out of selling drugs that work. I do mind about exploitatative manipulators of public gullibility making lots of money selling unregulated rubbish to the deluded under the guise of "naturalness". There are lots of wonderful, entirely natural products out there. Like strychnine.

And yes, I probably do have shares in drug companies. I derive my modest retirement income, in part, from shares. I dont know what they are, I pay a man to take care of that.

Just a thought.

[Pilchardman]

From now, manufacturers will have to prove their products have been made to strict standards and contain a consistent and clearly marked dose

Good. About time too. Peer reviewed efficacy studies would be a good idea as well.

[teamsaint]

An interesting link, teamsaint. Firstly, the site is from the USA & the licensing regulations are different to those here. You'll notice that the drug you highlight has very clear warnings about its use & side effects - would you find such clear warnings on the olive-leaf extract? I would also be a little suspicious of a site that carries adverts for 'herbal' remedies on the same page that has dire warnings about using another drug - it makes me wonder how independent and un-biased it is.

My point is that drugs like this may carry a well researched warning , but they are prescribed in situations where their containdications may be less than well understood....for instance to teenagers who are in need of some urgent relief. What do we think all those pharmaceutical reps do all day, if its not convincing doctors to prescribe their expensive drugs.

Nobody in this discussion has come up with any real indication of dangers in the remedies that the EU was so keen to ban, sorry, license.
There is no evidence of danger, over many years of use.
Anyway, if the EU is happy to pay for the license procedure and testing, (they have a big enough budget) then thats fine.

Of course the site I linked to was biased. The information of a bottle of the stuff will be in small print medical/scientific speak. I certainly wouldnt even have it in the house. Its potentially lethal, and doctors prescribe it.
Incidentally, people would be daft not to research ANY remedy that they want to take.but if bias is the issue, its not much good going to the drugs companies. They want you to buy their drugs, and they have the clout to get big market share, and to get stuff like roaccutane prescribed for minor conditions.
Now THAT is dangerous, and worries me a lot more than a lack of testing on some herbal remedies.

[Flosshilde]

My point is that drugs like this may carry a well researched warning , but they are prescribed in situations where their containdications may be less than well understood....

As I pointed out, the site is American - I would think that USA GPs have greater freedom to prescribe whatever they want than GPs in the NHS do.

Incidentally, people would be daft not to research ANY remedy that they want to take.but if bias is the issue, its not much good going to the drugs companies. They want you to buy their drugs, and they have the clout to get big market share, and to get stuff like roaccutane prescribed for minor conditions.
Now THAT is dangerous, and worries me a lot more than a lack of testing on some herbal remedies.

I actually tried to do some research on the olive-leaf extract you cited (very crude research, by Googling) - the hits listed on the first three pages were of sites that I didn't feel could be depended on for impartiality. Finding unbiased facts about un-regulated products that do not have to go through a trials regime can be very difficult

[Bryn]

Googling with "olive-leaf extract" and "contraindications" as my search terms brought up this as an early hit:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/331285-contraindications-of-olive-leaf-extract/

[Flosshilde]

Particularly interesting is the statement that "The safety and efficacy of olive leaf extract has yet to be fully evaluated in pregnant or lactating women". Yet it's available over the counter, or off the internet from a UK supplier with no indication of the risks http://www.revital.co.uk/Olive_Leaf_Extract (I particularly liked the comment on the last product Suitab;e [sic]for children aged 2 and upwards (also ideal for small pets).

[teamsaint]

probably time just to agree to disagree.

In general terms though, I feel that the power and irresponsibility of drugs companies, and some doctors present a far greater risk than a few unlicensed herbal/natural remedies for which there is no track record at all of negative effects.
I would have been much happier if my son had been told to try the olive leaf stuff rather than prescribed a drug that can cause depression , amongst other things.

We should all do our research, and exercise caution in what we take.

Other things that do need regulating rather more urgently would include the rather nasty substance aspartame, present in almost every soft drink you see. Another licensed and toxic shocker !!