If you've a few moments to spare....

[Nick Armstrong]

My auntie enjoys Katherine Jenkins, Il Divo, and Alfie Boe .... I would deeply resent being told that one is somehow more worthy of attention than the other.

So does mine! She just laughs when I tell her I think it's compete and utter sh*te

[Flosshilde]

I thought my dreams had come true there for a moment....shame you didn't stick to your word.......

You should never trust a Rhinemaiden - slippery customers.

I shall treasure the thought that you dream about me, Pee.

[Flosshilde]

I've been following this thread for a while and have been marvelling at the intellectual snobbery and condescension displayed by certain posters.

I was simply expressing surprise? dismay? that they were included in a listing of classical music, when so much of what they perform is anything but. I made no comment, initially, about their artistic worth.

My auntie enjoys Katherine Jenkins, Il Divo, and Alfie Boe- who actually has a pretty good voice, and is a charming bloke as well-

As I said, my partner's mother likes KJ. Alfie Boe, I believe, does have a good voice (although I've never heard him, I think) - KJ without doubt doesn't (& I have heard her). AB might be charming - but that's never been a criteria in measuring artistic merit.

and if were to read some of the comments on here I imagine she would be mortified.

Obviously I don't know your aunt, but I doubt it- she'd probably have the same reaction as you, say she didn't care what other people thought, she enjoyed them & that's what matters - which is perfectly true.

[PatrickOD]

Obviously I don't know your aunt, but I doubt it- she'd probably have the same reaction as you, say she didn't care what other people thought, she enjoyed them & that's what matters - which is perfectly true.

I rest my case.

[Nick Armstrong]

I rest my case.

Do you really think that anything that people enjoy is by definition always good for them?

Is there no room for the possibility that they might get even more enjoyment, benefit, fulfilment from music (to stick to the subject) which you yourself hint you might be inclined to call good?

If I had been asked if I thought any of the above were actually good, I might, or might not, have given a different answer.

Does one make no effort at all? Do you really not agree at all with vinteuil's cri de coeur, that

that they should be given access to BETTER!!!

?

[aeolium]

Do you really think that anything that people enjoy is by definition always good for them?

Why should it be? Do you listen to music because you believe it is good for you?

Is there no room for the possibility that they might get even more enjoyment, benefit, fulfilment from music (to stick to the subject) which you yourself hint you might be inclined to call good?

You're deciding that the people who like music you despise should share your opinion as to what is good and bad music. Have you thought about listening to music you don't know (of which there must be many different kinds) rather than bothering about what other people should listen to?

Does one make no effort at all? Do you really not agree at all with vinteuil's cri de coeur, that

Originally Posted by vinteuil
that they should be given access to BETTER!!!

But people do have access to the music you think is better. If they choose not to listen to it that is up to them.

It seems to me that your argument is a paraphrase of that exasperated cry of Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady: "Why can't [they] be more like me?"

[PatrickOD]

Do you really think that anything that people enjoy is by definition always good for them?

Is there no room for the possibility that they might get even more enjoyment, benefit, fulfilment from music (to stick to the subject) which you yourself hint you might be inclined to call good?



Does one make no effort at all? Do you really not agree at all with vinteuil's cri de coeur, that



?

I can't do multiple quotes, Caliban. Sorry if this turns out messy.

1 The OP referred to choices of classical music on Amazon. I described it as 'something for everyone' meaning one can choose what is enjoyable for them. I really cannot think of a genre of music that can per se do you harm, unlike some foods for example. Enjoying music therefore is harmless, to say the least. Regardless of genre there is enjoyment to be had from listening to music, and some people restrict their listening for their own reasons.

2 It is very possible that if they expanded their listening they could benefit from it, and don't think I haven't done my bit to encourage some people to do that. But the bottom line is people respond to their own tastes and make their own choices. I'm not too sure at all about the belief that 'if you like that, you'll like this'.

And yes, there is some crossover music that I think is done well, and that I like. There are plenty of arrangers, and good session musicians and singers not necessarily in the symphonic circuit. Not to mention the virtuosi peppering the folk and pop scenes.

3 The question of what is better is a different argument, and vinteuil cunningly changed the goalposts there! I stick to my guns by refusing to rubbish other people's tastes. Enjoyment is a precious human emotion(?) and enjoying music is a mystical gift not to be tampered with by me.

I hope I have addressed your questions satisfactorily.

Yes it did turn out messy. Sorry. And aeolium beat me to it - it took me so long. Thanks aeolium.

[aeolium]

Enjoyment is a precious human emotion(?) and enjoying music is a mystical gift not to be tampered with by me.

I couldn't have put it better myself, Patrick. Amen to that.

[Nick Armstrong]

I couldn't have put it better myself, Patrick. Amen to that.

Amen indeed. But it seems such a waste - there's just no getting away from the fact that the Jenkins-Il Divo type product is...

But there's no point in repetition at midnight. I suspect no minds are going to be changed.

And so to bed...

[Flosshilde]

During this discussion I've been reminded of Wilde's comment - 'All bad art is the result of good intentions'