If you've a few moments to spare....

[Guest]

I've just received an email from amazon, inviting me to browse through their Classical Boxed Sets. Nothing wrong with that - plenty of bargains, I'd imagine. Almost straight away,I spotted a Complete Mahler Symphonies and Songs (Rattle), 11 CDs at well under £20. And Beethoven symphonies 1-9 from Karajan for £9.99.
However, I then noticed that there are 17,756 items to browse through.

[Bryn]

However, I then noticed that there are 17,756 items to browse through.

Perhaps, as a classical music listener, they have assumed that you have been put out to grass?

[Flosshilde]

If you filter it with 'classical' it goes down to a more manageable 2880

Although the first couple of items are 'Bring Him Home' by Alfie Boe, 'Moonlight Serenade' by Andre Rieu (& his Johann Strauss Orchestra) & 'A Classic Christmas: the Ultimate Collection of Christmas Classics and Carols'

Pity one can't apply a 'rubbish' filter as well.

[Flosshilde]

Having scrolled down the page I see that there's a couple of K Jenkins CDs, a cople by the Divies, one by something called 'The Priests'. They'd have to pay me ...

[Flosshilde]

But hope arrives on the next page - 14 CDs of Klaus Tennstedt for £18.

(sorry - I won't post any more comments)

[PatrickOD]

Pity one can't apply a 'rubbish' filter as well.

So.... something for everyone Flosshilde. How inconsiderate of Amazon.

[vinteuil]

So.... something for everyone Flosshilde. How inconsiderate of Amazon.

Patrick - but do you really think that K Jenkins - A Boe - A Rieu - are actually good for anyone?

[PatrickOD]

Of course I do, vinteuil. Who do I think I am?

[vinteuil]

Of course I do, vinteuil. Who do I think I am?

... I think you're a more generous soul than I am!

[vinteuil]

Patrick - but do you really think that K Jenkins - A Boe - A Rieu - are actually good for anyone?

Of course I do, vinteuil. Who do I think I am?

... I think you're a more generous soul than I am!

... or, if I were in a more robust frame of mind, I might say:

Well, actually, I do believe in a canon and a hierarchy - inasmuch as I think that Bach is greater than Bottesini - and that Sviatoslav Richter is greater than Angela Hewitt or Semprini or Liberace -
...

- and I am a 'champagne socialist' to the extent that I believe everyone should have access to champagne - that it should not be a question of champagne restricted to the toffs - prosecco for the proles -

- so therefore: I think those who think that K Jenkins - A Boe - A Rieu - are what 'good music' is - are - wrong! - wrong!! - WRONG!!! - and that they should be given access to BETTER!!!

[Nick Armstrong]

... or, if I were in a more robust frame of mind, I might say:

Well, actually, I do believe in a canon and a hierarchy - inasmuch as I think that Bach is greater than Bottesini - and that Sviatoslav Richter is greater than Angela Hewitt or Semprini or Liberace -
...

- and I am a 'champagne socialist' to the extent that I believe everyone should have access to champagne - that it should not be a question of champagne restricted to the toffs - prosecco for the proles -

- so therefore: I think those who think that K Jenkins - A Boe - A Rieu - are what 'good music' is - are - wrong! - wrong!! - WRONG!!! - and that they should be given access to BETTER!!!

Vinteuil, I'm with you 100%! Furthermore, I think that the Jenkins-Boe-Rieu brigade actually do harm (marginal perhaps, but still tangible), in encouraging an easy, vapid sort of sentimentality which equips people very ill for dealing with the tougher realities of the world. I get that it's escapist, relaxing... But I think music (and other arts) can be that and also improve a person's relationship with the dynamics of real life, rather than the opposite.

[amateur51]

... or, if I were in a more robust frame of mind, I might say:

Well, actually, I do believe in a canon and a hierarchy - inasmuch as I think that Bach is greater than Bottesini - and that Sviatoslav Richter is greater than Angela Hewitt or Semprini or Liberace -
...

- and I am a 'champagne socialist' to the extent that I believe everyone should have access to champagne - that it should not be a question of champagne restricted to the toffs - prosecco for the proles -

- so therefore: I think those who think that K Jenkins - A Boe - A Rieu - are what 'good music' is - are - wrong! - wrong!! - WRONG!!! - and that they should be given access to BETTER!!!

Just can't abide these fence-sitters!

Say what you mean!

[aeolium]

Well, I'm happy to get off the fence and say that I'm with PatrickOD here (I think) and disagree with vinteuil.

I don't like the seemingly irresistible urge to evaluate things comparatively and for dumping whole genres on the rubbish tip, so to speak. I'm for the greatest diversity of music/literature/visual art for the enormous diversity of tastes which can enjoy them. The idea that particular kinds of art are morally better than any others, or are morally better for people than others I thought had been effectively squashed by our knowledge of the 1933-45 period. And the idea that people who like pop music and hate or are indifferent to classical can be brought round by some re-education programme seems equally odd.

The existence of the 'canon' - in music, literature and the visual arts - is one reason why we are stuck with such unvarying fare on R3 today, rather than the many works which the authorities have deemed inferior and therefore unfit to listen to. It also invites us to listen to composers mainly in relation to other composers, which I don't think is the best way to appreciate them. If you only listen to Bottesini thinking how much worse this is than Bach, then you're not giving yourself the best chance of hearing what is individual about Bottesini.

[Flosshilde]

- and I am a 'champagne socialist' to the extent that I believe everyone should have access to champagne - that it should not be a question of champagne restricted to the toffs - prosecco for the proles -

Prosecco is just as good as champagne, but different. KJ is not just as good as Callas, Sutherland, etc etc - she's a crap singer, who sings operatic arias in arrangements that her limited voice can cope with & that sentimentalises them (& I have listened to a CD by her)

[Flosshilde]

I don't like the seemingly irresistible urge to evaluate things comparatively and for dumping whole genres on the rubbish tip, so to speak. I'm for the greatest diversity of music/literature/visual art for the enormous diversity of tastes which can enjoy them. The idea that particular kinds of art are morally better than any others, or are morally better for people than others I thought had been effectively squashed by our knowledge of the 1933-45 period.

& that has **** all to do with it. We're not talking about different genres - KJ et al purports to be a classical singer, singing opera. She's just no good at it. She might be great doing pop music, or popular ballads. There is something immoral about the way in which she debases the genre she is promoted in.
My partner's mother is a fan of both KJ & Susan Boyle. I've listened to both. In my opinion Boyle is the better singer - she has a better voice, but, more importantly, it is suited to the genre she records & is promoted in- popular ballads.

And the idea that people who like pop music and hate or are indifferent to classical can be brought round by some re-education programme seems equally odd.

Isn't this what the people who promote KJ, the Divis etc claim to be trying to do?