The end of HIP as we know it?

[scottycelt]

How does it being around for years make the situation better for the producers and the musicians affected? If it being around for years means anything it means that nothing has been done for years to put a ridiculous situation right.

Here are Aquila Corde Armoniche. November 14, 2011

http://www.aquilacorde.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=190&Itemid=1471&lang=en

Here is Dmitry Badiarov's blog November 19, 2011 http://violoncellodaspalla.blogspot....sed-by-eu.html

This is, at least in parts, a music message board. If you aren't 'especially exercised' about it why do you feel the need to contribute? It's only a story about 'Euroscepticism' if people who are obsessed with 'Euroscepticism' one way or another chose to make it one. That's The Daily Mail and scottycelt. Is there any chance this conversation could now get back to the OP's original question?

Should we "barrockers" be worried? Or is it just more Daily Mail hysteria?

It isn't a story manufactured by the Daily Mail (who, I'm sure, care as much about HIPP as scottycelt) and clearly performers of baroque music using gut strings are worried.

[Edit - scottycelt: "This particular one has been around for years." Dmitry Badiarov: "The current EU legislation effectively kills this. Aquila Corde has been battling with this issue both in Rome and Brussels since 2006 trying to involve other string makers and important musicians but the ministers in charge remained deaf."]

Again, it wasn't I who first used the phrase 'especially exercised' but we'll let that one pass.

I love the 'Daily Mail & Scottycelt' bit ... ... but you are at least correct in pointing out that I have no personal interest in HIPP, (though I have a passion for music) in much the same way as I have little interest in bananas, though I do love other fruits. I do wonder, though, whether HIPP is really any closer to your heart, but I must stop being such a doubter.

If you really believe that the Mail or the Telegraph (and now apparently the Mail again) are truly passionate about Hipp as well, and this story has absolutely nothing to with anti-European politics well, that's fine, but I'm a bit more cynical, I'm afraid.

I've been most careful not to say whether the story (as reported) is true or not because, like you, and it would appear everybody else here, I simply don't know. I merely stressed the glaringly obvious political motivation for the story which others have also pointed out. We do know there is a story but what the true story is regarding the EU is quite another matter!

I think suggesting that is perfectly relevant to this discussion and I think we might at least get one thing straight ... it's revolutionary you who is apparently eagerly swallowing the incessant propaganda from the Mail and/or Telegraph, not me!

[John Skelton]

I've been most careful not to say whether the story (as reported) is true or not because, like you, and it would appear everybody else here, I simply don't know.

I would appear to have rather more information on the subject than you or, indeed, anyone else here though.

I think suggesting that is perfectly relevant to this discussion and I think we might at least get one thing straight ... it's revolutionary you who is apparently eagerly swallowing the incessant propaganda from the Mail and/or Telegraph, not me!

Utter bilge. I couldn't give a toss about either newspaper or their motives. I get my information from the website of the company which manufactures the strings in Italy http://www.aquilacorde.com/index.php...d=1471&lang=en

From the blog of the instrument maker, violinist and performer on the violoncello da spalla, Dmitry Badiarov http://violoncellodaspalla.blogspot.com/

from Early Music News http://www.musiqueancienne.org/index...isplay&sid=239

and from a violinist friend who plays in a number of the main European 'period instrument' orchestras (including the London ones) and also in a chamber group and string quartet.

You have nothing to say on this subject and sadly you continue to say it.

[mangerton]

Possibly, but it's not in the Daily Mail it's in the Telegraph. And it isn't completely untrue, though the Telegraph's is an unsurprisingly partial account. See http://www.r3ok.com/index.php/topic,...html#msg119769

John, As the link in msg 1 of this thread makes plain, it is in the Daily Wail.

If you're going to correct someone, please do make sure your correction is correct.

[John Skelton]

It was also in the Daily Telegraph, so my apologies for the misunderstanding.

I take it you accept that from the other sources I've cited, Daily Mail or not there is substance to a story about this, that manufacturers of gut strings have either closed down completely or ceased that production and that period instrument string players are extremely concerned? And that the source of the problem appears to be EU legislation and not its local application?

If people want to talk about the Europhobic British press that's fine. But the British press being Europhobic doesn't mean this isn't an issue that matters (for those who care about period instrument performance and its practitioners). And it doesn't mean it can be airily dismissed by association.

[scottycelt]

I would appear to have rather more information on the subject than you or, indeed, anyone else here though. .... Utter bilge. I couldn't give a toss about either newspaper or their motives. You have nothing to say on this subject and sadly you continue to say it.

Well, that's certainly the impression you give ... that you know everything and others know nothing.

You get your information (apart from the Mail & Telegraph) from:

a) A website that blames Italian Law
b) A blog that blames EU Law
c) A website that blames Mad Cow Disease
d) A friend, though you don't say whether he has a clue who or what is really to blame either.

Relax .... I've certainly nothing more to say on the subject ...

[John Skelton]

Well, that's certainly the impression you give ... that you know everything and others know nothing.

You get your information (apart from the Mail & Telegraph) from:

a) A website that blames Italian Law
b) A blog that blames EU Law
c) A website that blames Mad Cow Disease
d) A friend, though you don't say whether he has a clue who or what is really to blame either.

Relax .... I've certainly nothing more to say on the subject ...

The website 'blaming' "Mad Cow Disease" carries a statement from Société Française de Corde en Boyaux, explaining why the company is closing down. Which rather demonstrates that while Aquila Corde Armoniche singles out Italian law the problem isn't confined to Italy. France not being Italy. It's pretty obvious - or it would be to anyone but you - that they are blaming the effects of legislation introduced in the wake of the "Mad Cow Disease" crisis on the manufacturing of gut strings.

Badiarov is an instrument maker and musician. It's not just "a blog." It's a reasonable possibility that he's done some research and that what he says is based on research. Hence

There are several laws causing the crisis. One of these laws can be found here:

in English: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...064%3AEN%3APDF

in Italian: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...064%3AIT%3APDF

in French: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...064%3AFR%3APDF

The law in every other EU language can be found at eur-lex.europe.eu

So not specifically Italian law, then.

It's a she, not a he. Naturally, given that she's a musician who plays on gut strings, you would assume that she wouldn't have a clue. After all, why should she bother to find out about something that will probably affect her as a musician? She's only interested in the subject. Unlike you, who couldn't care less.

Have you noticed how often topics you involve yourself in finish up like this? Any discussion of the introduced subject is dragged wildly off-topic by you. I believe it's called being a troll.

[french frank]

Without wishing to go off topic , this has a bizarre resemblance to the story about lead organ pipes and the EU WEEE and RoHS directive banning their use for repairing organs. In that case it was just in the UK, with the Dept of Trade & Industry insisting the directive meant one thing and the EU Commission insisting it didn't.

I've written to my MEP, as he kindly settled the lead pipe matter, to ask him if anyone is doing anything. Because of course it affects us in the UK too (thanks to John Skelton for the references to the gut string makers).

[It took him about six weeks last time ... ]

[Flosshilde]

Can one be a HIP enthusiast and a vegetarian?

[John Skelton]

I've written to my MEP, as he kindly settled the lead pipe matter, to ask him if anyone is doing anything. Because of course it affects us in the UK too (thanks to John Skelton for the references to the gut string makers).

[It took him about six weeks last time ... ]

Now that's a good idea - thanks . I'll do that. I e-mailed my French lawyer friend, who said he would see what he could find. He also said something about "the bloody EU" but I think he was joking ....

[mangerton]

it could trend ...

Ff, I know that you know as well as I do that "trend" is noun. This appears to be a neologism of which I am happily in ignorance. Would you please oblige with a construe?

[John Skelton]

Clarification from PW http://www.r3ok.com/index.php/topic,...html#msg119843

So it doesn't look as if it is specific to Italy. This may all seem arcane, or even amusing, but it will be significant for 'period instrument' performers and performances if there's no change either in non-EU availability of materials or EU regulations.

Returning to the start of this thread, and the original question - whatever any newspaper's motives it isn't a non-story (for people who care about HIPP).

[french frank]

I think I have the correct word, but being neither on Facebook nor Twitter, I may not have. Or of.

How to trend. It means people are copying it and people are copying it and people are copying it, tweeting and retweeting until the entire world knows all about it.

[french frank]

Clarification from PW http://www.r3ok.com/index.php/topic,...html#msg119843

I didn't suggest any argument to my MEP who is a rural dweller. I think they just need to know that this is an important issue, even if only to a restricted group.

[mangerton]

I think I have the correct word, but being neither on Facebook nor Twitter, I may not have. Or of.

How to trend. It means people are copying it and people are copying it and people are copying it, tweeting and retweeting until the entire world knows all about it.

Oh, it's quite definitely "of" - certainly amongst those poor benighted souls who use "trend" as verb. Thank you for your explication.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I always thought it was sheep gut !

You are quite correct, but you can't expect the simple-minded Daily Mail to know of such things.