Whatever happened to......?

[Dave2002]

I always address all my Christmas cards to male friends "Esq." Just to remind them I am of a certain age group... And of course anything of a businessy kind.

What about people you don't know? Do you use "Dear Sir" even though in many cases in office anonymity the reader may actually be female. I have taken to writing "Dear Madam or Sir" in the UK, though in other countries I might use the function, as in "Dear Tax Inspector", "Dear Tree Surgeon", "Dear Rodent Catcher","Dear Bank Manager", "Dear Customer Service Agent" etc.

If I've identified a peson by name I stick to the forms using their real name, though often from businesses such letters are answered by different people, and some of the "real" people are known to be convenient "fakes".

[Lat-Literal]

What about people you don't know? Do you use "Dear Sir" even though in many cases in office anonymity the reader may actually be female. I have taken to writing "Dear Madam or Sir" in the UK, though in other countries I might use the function, as in "Dear Tax Inspector", "Dear Tree Surgeon", "Dear Rodent Catcher","Dear Bank Manager", "Dear Customer Service Agent" etc.

If I've identified a peson by name I stick to the forms using their real name, though often from businesses such letters are answered by different people, and some of the "real" people are known to be convenient "fakes".

I gave up on "Dear Sir or Madam" as it seemed on one level to be questioning the gender of the recipient. The e-mail makes it easier because you can simply say "Hello" or "Hello Team". With politicians, I always make a point of using only their first name even if they address me as Mr to make them know I am not doffing my cap. With almost everyone else, I will as courtesy copy their manner of responding to me. Having been reminded of Esq, I am sad that it has fallen out of favour. As for Christmas and birthday cards posted by hand, I write "To" before the names of the people on the envelope to make it more personal. That is, personal in a way which clearly underlines that we won't be in each other's houses.

[Serial_Apologist]

Anna, Heidi and Sarah skip down the road like girls from Biba,,,,<needs a Kevin Ayres soundtrack....>

[Lat-Literal]

Not the Aberdeen football supporters' song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7eyKzoNbhw

[Serial_Apologist]

As a matter of interest, how do people sign off their letters these days? And do they do it differently from how they sign off emails?

I was brought up (after a fashion ) to end a formal letter, let's say, to a local authority or bank, "Yours sincerely" when it is an initial letter requesting an reply, and "Yours faithfully" if the relationship has been established as bona fide in previous communications. However, these days I'm finding that "Yours sincerely" has become customary in all comunications, not just preliminary ones.

Emails from such sources nearly always seem toconclude with "Kind regards" - which is a nice way to end a message; but is this the normal protocol, or is it specific to emails?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

As a matter of interest, how do people sign off their letters these days? And do they do it differently from how they sign off emails?

I was brought up (after a fashion ) to end a formal letter, let's say, to a local authority or bank, "Yours sincerely" when it is an initial letter requesting an reply, and "Yours faithfully" if the relationship has been established as bona fide in previous communications. However, these days I'm finding that "Yours sincerely" has become customary in all comunications, not just preliminary ones.

Emails from such sources nearly always seem toconclude with "Kind regards" - which is a nice way to end a message; but is this the normal protocol, or is it specific to emails?

As I rarely write letters these days (and these are usually formal letters telling Insurance Companies I do not wish to continue with their grotequely hiked prices, so will they cancel my Direct Debit, please) I stick to the "Dear Sir/Madam ... Yours sincerely" or "Dear Mr/Ms ... Yours faithfully" model that you suggest.

E-Mails, no greeting for ongoing chats, "Hi, Charlie ... Bestio! fhg" for less regular but still friendly communication.

[vinteuil]

I was brought up (after a fashion ) to end a formal letter, let's say, to a local authority or bank, "Yours sincerely" when it is an initial letter requesting an reply, and "Yours faithfully" if the relationship has been established as bona fide in previous communications. However, these days I'm finding that "Yours sincerely" has become customary in all comunications, not just preliminary ones.

... the other way around, I think, Serial : if you don't know the name of the addressee you begin "Dear madam" or "Dear sir" - and end "yours faithfully" ; once you know the name it would be "Dear Ms Smith", "Dear Mr Smith" - ending "yours sincerely".

As for e-mails, the protocols seem much more fluid. I find myself writing 'hello' or even 'hi', and ending with 'all best', 'regards' and so on - Idon't think any "rules" have been establisht.

.

[Lat-Literal]

As I rarely write letters these days (and these are usually formal letters telling Insurance Companies I do not wish to continue with their grotequely hiked prices, so will they cancel my Direct Debit, please) I stick to the "Dear Sir/Madam ... Yours sincerely" or "Dear Mr/Ms ... Yours faithfully" model that you suggest.

E-Mails, no greeting for ongoing chats, "Hi, Charlie ... Bestio! fhg" for less regular but still friendly communication.

I had never encountered "Bestio" until I read it in salymap's posts.

Re "Kind regards", I deliberately use that phrase but I find most people opt for "Best regards". "Kind" is my favourite word in the English language. It used to be "Tranquil".

... the other way around, I think, Serial : if you don't know the name of the addressee you begin "Dear madam" or "Dear sir" - and end "yours faithfully" ; once you know the name it would be "Dear Ms Smith", "Dear Mr Smith" - ending "yours sincerely".

As for e-mails, the protocols seem much more fluid. I find myself writing 'hello' or even 'hi', and ending with 'all best', 'regards' and so on - Idon't think any "rules" have been establisht.

.

Yes indeed - although when the awful Plain English Society got its hands on the Civil Service, we were all ordered to use "sincerely" in every case.

"Regarding" was out. Fair enough, but so too was "concerning". We had to have "about". That was not fair at all except to those aged two to five.

I am not overly keen on "Hi" although it just about passes. One knows where one is with it. Nice people though probably vegan every other Friday.

Not that I always choose it but I quite like "Dear X" for e-mails as a subtle snubbing of the medium being used. "If I say this is a letter, it's a letter"!

[eighthobstruction]

....i too am fond of 'kind'....I find 'grace' very cleansing too....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... the other way around, I think, Serial : if you don't know the name of the addressee you begin "Dear madam" or "Dear sir" - and end "yours faithfully" ; once you know the name it would be "Dear Ms Smith", "Dear Mr Smith" - ending "yours sincerely".

Dang! Yes, you're quite right and how I think I do it (and certainly how I always used to do it). It's so infrequent these days.

I had never encountered "Bestio" until I read it in salymap's posts.

Nor I - and it is in memory of her that I adopted that bountiful "signing off"

[Pulcinella]

When emailing to a person or persons unknown, I often start simply with the time of day:

Good morning/afternoon
I am writing to.....

and I usually end with
Best wishes
even if I'm complaining about something!

[teamsaint]

When emailing to a person or persons unknown, I often start simply with the time of day:

Good morning/afternoon
I am writing to.....

and I usually end with
Best wishes
even if I'm complaining about something!

Seems reasonable.
But if complaining, ( eg to big car manufacturers ) does it actually work ?

[Pulcinella]

Seems reasonable.
But if complaining, ( eg to big car manufacturers ) does it actually work ?

Well it got me five free soft-close hinges for the kitchen cupboards, when only one had broken!

[teamsaint]

Well it got me five free soft-close hinges for the kitchen cupboards, when only one had broken!

Result !!

BMW just told me to wait my turn........

[Richard Barrett]

BMW just told me to wait my turn........

That's funny, what they usually do is pull out aggressively in front of you as if they own the bloody road.