The Leveson Inquiry

[Flosshilde]

well isn't that the benefit of hindsight ?
if I'd known an innocent phone call I made two years ago would return to haunt me today I would have made a note of it
I must say I'm still a bit mystified about what this special adviser's job was - it seems to be just a message taker

But you're not a cabinet minister, or a minister's special adviser, or in an extremely senior position in a company. Well, I assume you're not - if you are what are you doing here? Chillaxing? . If you were you would be expected to remember phone calls etc.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

well back in the late 70s early 80s one was required to keep contemporaneous notes of phone calls for commercial and risk management purposes ... [in shipping]

[ahinton]

well isn't that the benefit of hindsight ?
if I'd known an innocent phone call I made two years ago would return to haunt me today I would have made a note of it

Sure, but that wasn't my point; your use of the word "innocent" is where your argument falls apart here, for if in a position of sufficient significance that any call that one makes might turn out at some point to be - or even merely to be thought to be - less "innocent" than it might have seemed at the time, the answer is simple - record all calls and keep full records (and written notes on them) and then one has the evidence for future submission if called upon to provide it or to need to provide it.

I must say I'm still a bit mystified about what this special adviser's job was - it seems to be just a message taker

I think that you're by no means alone in that! Somehow, I suspect that it may be found somewhere within a landscape and a goatee...

[Mahlerei]

The whole email/texting culture has a lot to answer for; it's certainly not ideal for dealing with the important business of state. What staggers me is just how casual and off-the-cuff these exchanges were. Absolutely no sense that this was a multi-billion-pound deal that would change the face of broadcasting in the UK. And isn't Mr Smith a little young to be a 'special adviser'? Indeed the Hague and Fox scandals suggest these individuals are more trouble than they're worth. Unless of course the whole idea is to get them to do the donkey work while one swans around at Covent Garden.

[mercia]

well I'm still confused as to how this bidding process is supposed to work. who is allowed to speak to whom? if Mr Smith shouldn't have spoken to Mr Michel who should he have spoken to and vice versa?

[Flosshilde]

And isn't Mr Smith a little young to be a 'special adviser'? Indeed the Hague and Fox scandals suggest these individuals are more trouble than they're worth. Unless of course the whole idea is to get them to do the donkey work while one swans around at Covent Garden.

The whole idea of special advisers for ministers is strange, and has given rise to many problems. I thought that ministers were supposed to come up with the policies, not get 'advice' from advisers which often seems to be the actual policies. Look at the latest stuff from Beecroft (I know he's not called a special adviser) - it's not advice, he's telling the government what to do. & got rather into a tantrum when Cameron, sensibly for a change, amended it.

[Flosshilde]

well I'm stil confused as to how this bidding process is supposed to work. who is allowed to speak to whom? if Mr Smith shouldn't have spoken to Mr Michel who should he have spoken to and vice versa?

The Minister, or nobody. The minister & civil service (the special advisers are, I think, technically part of the civil service) should not have been working so closely with NI, & should not have been in contact with them, except through formal official channels & to get specific information.

[ahinton]

The Minister, or nobody. The minister & civil service (the special advisers are, I think, technically part of the civil service) should not have been working so closely with NI, & should not have been in contact with them, except through formal official channels & to get specific information.

I believe that this is correct, although what should happen and what can and sometimes does happen may be quite different and, in any case, even the former does not of itself exonerate others from the possibility of suspicious behaviour or outright wrongdoing.

[mercia]

The Minister, or nobody.

fair enough - in which case who do NI (or do I mean Newscorp or do I mean BSkyB ) in the person of Mr Michel make their representations to? and if you reply "official channels" I'm going to have to ask you who they are?

[Flosshilde]

I'm fairly vague about the processes, but yes, there would be open & official procedures. But your comments sound as if you are quite happy for it to be done through back-door (or should that be Christmas party?) deals, where a company like NI can buy the government?

The contacts between NI & the minister, whether direct or through intermediaries, went rather beyond 'representations'. At times it looked like the NI tail wagging the ministerial dog.

[ahinton]

where a company like NI can buy the government?

Any company can do that it they've got enough money and the government of the day's prepared to sell; recent governments have, after all, dragged millions of unsuspecting and unwilling taxpayers into buying shares in a couple of major British banks that most of them would not have chosen to purchase of their own free will, so it's all down to future shareholders from outside the country to decide to go for it or not, subject to the recommendations of the Chairperson and CEO of the company concerned. In some senses, countries are just like any other big corporate entities so mus expect to be up for grabs in the market place when any entity might want to bid for them.

The contacts between NI & the minister, whether direct or through intermediaries, went rather beyond 'representations'. At times it looked like the NI tail wagging the ministerial dog.

Indeed so - but then aren't all tails wagging all dogs in such situations, on the basis that the strongest tail wins? That's how international corporate capitalism works, is it not? - and what goes for companies purchasing or sellng others surely goes for companies or countries seeking to purchase other companies or countries; if you don't like the regulatory régime of a particular country that asserts itself sufficiently to try to stop you buying one of its major companies, then just go buy the country - problem solved (provided that it's prepared to sell, of course). If in doubt, go ask Mr Ahmadinejad who, I suspect, should probably rather purchase Israel outright than "wipe it off the map" as he has often been portrayed as claiming to want to do...

[Mahlerei]

It now seems that silly Hunt was warned by lawyers not to get involved in the BSkyB affair but he chose to ignore them. Gosh, this is the best soap on TV.

[jayne lee wilson]

Yes, isn't it! And Vince Cable & Tony Blair to come next week...

"My name is Vince Cable. I used to be a serious politician."

Will he take the chance to be one again, for one day only?

[mercia]

your comments sound as if you are quite happy for it to be done through back-door

not at all, I was simply curious to know exactly how this bidding process is supposed to happen [obviously not the way it did]
but don't worry, I've come to the conclusion that nobody knows

[ahinton]

Yes, isn't it! And Vince Cable & Tony Blair to come next week...

"My name is Vince Cable. I used to be a serious politician."

Will he take the chance to be one again, for one day only?

Assuming him even to be capable of such a feat, wouldn't it look all too transparently obvious that he'd have wilfully reinvented himself just for the purposes of the inquiry?

"First BSky B
Then Cable TV;
It's all so unfair",
quoth Tony Blair.

"Which Hunt am I?"
Asked Jerry; "Why,
Just one more vulture -
Head of culture".

The truth will out and we shall see
Except, perhaps, for Mr Pee
Who's probably already bored
With Jay and with the noble Lord.
(anon., 2012)