The Leveson Inquiry

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  • ahinton
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 16122

    Originally posted by Mr Pee View Post
    Isn't it Jay and Leveson's job to ensure that their questions are answered? I'm sure that if they weren't satisfied they would have pressed her further.
    Clearly, the various principles surrounding the phrase "no further questions" in a courtroom context that can as well be applied to that of this inquiry have well and truly eluded you. Why would you be prepared to suppose that Jay or Leveson need necessarily pursue Mrs Brooks or indeed anyone else with dogged determination until answers to questions had been provided truthfully and in full? It is surely possible for either to conclude that a witness is unwilling to provide full and honest answers to questions if and when that is the case so, as Mrs Brooks' sometimes clumsy attempts at evasiveness would hardly have gone unnoticed, there is no reason that Jay and Leveson would not take due consideration of that evasiveness as a substitute for the answers that were being sought from her.

    Originally posted by Mr Pee View Post
    And Amateur, I don't know whether you have ever run a multinational media empire- I sincerely hope not - but if you had done, I wonder if you would be able to remember every detail of your activities from several years ago.
    Whilst is is pretty obvious that neither he nor you have ever run such a company, that might at first glance seem to be of little relevance to the matter at hand, since many people might reasonably be expected not to remember every detail of their activities from several years ago; however, in a court trial or in an inquiry such as this, it is vital for the barrister ansking the questions to try to assist in focusing witnesses' attention on their past activities with a view to jogging the memory, there being so much at stake.

    More importantly still, there can surely be no doubt that those being questioned will have "remembered" every detail of their past activities at the time that they were involved in them so, given the sheer gravity of the matters under investigation, the accusations of collective selective amnesia that have arisen from certain witnesses' more obviously evasive responses can hardly be deemed unreasonable or surprising.

    Furthermore, the fact that these activities occurred at such high levels within so large a multinational empire surely suggests that there either was - or ought to have been - a sufficiently detailed audit trail of them as to overcome any need for such virtuosic feats of memory years later.

    Lastly, since those activities were of such far-reaching significance and their consequences of such potential or actual gravity, it is reasonable to assume that those involved in them would indeed remember many if not all of their details, even years down the line, especially as those consequences continued apace until the revelations of those activities commenced.

    It is therefore clear from all of the above that answers along the lines of "dunno, guv" simply won't do and it would not be reasonable for an inquiry such as this to accept such answers without due reservation; it will, of course, remain to be seen what conclusions are reached by Jay and Leveson from all of the answers provided to all of the questions placed during the inquiry, not least those responses which amount, shall be say, to rather less than "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth", a principle which must hold just as good at such an inquiry as it does a a court trial, otherwise the very purpose of the inquiry is undermined.

    Your various remarks on this inquiry suggest that you harbour grave doubts as to whether it should even be taking place at all and that you seem somewhat loath to accept that major wrongdoing at the highest levels of a vast multinational corporation might have occurred in the first place; clearly, this is not a viewpoint shared by many, including Lord Leveson and those who have seen fit to arrange for his inquiry to take place, otherwise there would be no ongoing inquiry. It now seems perfectly possible that the Prime Minister may be called to the witness stand; unless it is considered that there be very good reason for this, he would surely not be called and, if there is good reason, that is surely indicative of the level of gravity of the matters that are the subject of this inquiry.

    The heads of multinational empires such as Newscorp and senior government officials up to the respective levels of Rupert Murdoch and David Cameron and his predecessors are, by definition, in such positions of power as to be capable of affecting - and indeed do affect - the lives of many millions of people; this is why the matters under scrutiny at this inquiry are of such importance and why the inquiry itself is essential. Seeking and forming due conclusions on all of the relevant facts is vital and all efforts to do so must and will continue as long as is necessary (and I suspect that we've a long way yet to go with this); that is by no means a mere "left-wing" or "Guardian-reader" viewpoint (and, for the record, I am not in any case of leftist persuasion and do not read that newspaper regularly), for the outcome of the matters under investigation is of such significance as to be well above being confinable to the interests and agendas of this or that individual faction, as it will come to affect many of us, just as have the activities under investigation.

    Comment

    • John Skelton

      David Cameron texted Rebekah Brooks telling her to "keep her head up" in the week that she resigned as chief executive of News International, it has been alleged.

      There could be a perfectly innocent explanation for this - she might be suffering from postural / back problems. So the text might be a condensation of a conversation which might have gone something like this:

      RB: "Hello Mr Prime Minister, er - David Cameron, that's it! Nice to meet you somewhere in was it Europe that time we did when was it can't remember, perhaps we didn't. I'm OK, thanks, but my back is killing me."

      DC: "Did we? I think I remember something or is it nothing? - did we have something to eat in a restaurant with Mr Rupert Murdoch or am I another person? Sorry to hear about your back, keep your head up. Osborne has a tendency to slouch and gets terrible headaches. LOL."

      Comment

      • scottycelt

        The most ridiculous comment for me was Brooks complaining of the treatment she has recently received from parts of the media because she is 'a woman' and not 'a grumpy old man'.

        She might have pondered that, in today's selectively sexist and ageist world, 'a grumpy old man' wouldn't even have had a snowball-in-hell's chance of ever being in her former post in the first place.

        Comment

        • Beef Oven

          Originally posted by scottycelt View Post
          The most ridiculous comment for me was Brooks complaining of the treatment she has recently received from parts of the media because she is 'a woman' and not 'a grumpy old man'.

          She might have pondered that, in today's selectively sexist and ageist world, 'a grumpy old man' wouldn't even have had a snowball-in-hell's chance of ever being in her former post in the first place.

          Comment

          • mangerton
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 3346

            Originally posted by scottycelt View Post
            The most ridiculous comment for me was Brooks complaining of the treatment she has recently received from parts of the media because she is 'a woman' and not 'a grumpy old man'.

            She might have pondered that, in today's selectively sexist and ageist world, 'a grumpy old man' wouldn't even have had a snowball-in-hell's chance of ever being in her former post in the first place.
            Speaking as a gom myself, I must say you have hit the nail right on the head.

            Comment

            • John Skelton

              Originally posted by scottycelt View Post
              She might have pondered that, in today's selectively sexist and ageist world, 'a grumpy old man' wouldn't even have had a snowball-in-hell's chance of ever being in her former post in the first place.
              Originally posted by scottycelt View Post
              selectively sexist
              Indeed; it's rich for an ex-editor of The Sun to complain about sexism.

              In other news:

              The Sun, Dominic Mohan born 1969.
              Daily Mail, editor Paul Dacre born 1948.
              Daily Mirror, editor Richard Wallace born 1960.
              Daily Express, editor Martin Townsend born 1960.
              Daily Telegraph, editor Tony Gallagher born 1964.
              The Times, editor James Harding born 1969.
              The Guardian, editor Alan Rusbridger born 1953.
              The Independent, editor Chris Blackhurst born 1959.
              The Sunday Telegraph, editor Ian MacGregor born? but presumably he was.
              The Sunday Times, editor John Witherow born 1952.
              The Independent on Sunday, editor John Mullin born 1964.
              The Observer, editor John Mulholland born? etc.
              Mail on Sunday, editor Geordie Greig born 1960.
              Sunday Mirror, editor ...............
              .............................. TINA WEAVER, born 1965. It's political correctness gone mad. Only in our selectively sexist society could all those women have become newspaper editors. Tina Weaver and ... and ... and ....

              Nail on the head scottycelt. Absolutely bang on the head.

              Comment

              • Mr Pee
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 3285

                Originally posted by John Skelton View Post
                Indeed; it's rich for an ex-editor of The Sun to complain about sexism.

                In other news:

                The Sun, Dominic Mohan born 1969.
                Daily Mail, editor Paul Dacre born 1948.
                Daily Mirror, editor Richard Wallace born 1960.
                Daily Express, editor Martin Townsend born 1960.
                Daily Telegraph, editor Tony Gallagher born 1964.
                The Times, editor James Harding born 1969.
                The Guardian, editor Alan Rusbridger born 1953.
                The Independent, editor Chris Blackhurst born 1959.
                The Sunday Telegraph, editor Ian MacGregor born? but presumably he was.
                The Sunday Times, editor John Witherow born 1952.
                The Independent on Sunday, editor John Mullin born 1964.
                The Observer, editor John Mulholland born? etc.
                Mail on Sunday, editor Geordie Greig born 1960.
                Sunday Mirror, editor ...............
                .............................. TINA WEAVER, born 1965. It's political correctness gone mad. Only in our selectively sexist society could all those women have become newspaper editors. Tina Weaver and ... and ... and ....

                Nail on the head scottycelt. Absolutely bang on the head.



                Rachel Beer:- The Sunday Times 1893-1904 and The Observer 1891-1904
                Rosie Boycott:- The Independent on Sunday 1996-1998, the Independent 1998, the Daily Express 1998- 2001
                Patsy Chapman:- News of the World 1988–1994
                Sue Douglas:- Sunday Express 1995–1996
                Wendy Henry:-NOTW 1987-88, Sunday People 1989
                Tessa Hilton:- Sunday Mirror 1995-6
                Mary Howarth:- Daily Mirror 1903
                Delariviere Manley:- The Examiner 1711
                Dawn Neesom:- The Daily Star 2003-Present
                Amanda Platell:- Sunday Express 1998-99
                Eve Pollard:-Sunday Mirror 1987-91, Sunday Express 1991-94
                Bridget Rowe:- Sunday Mirror 1991-92 and 97-98, and The People 1992-96
                Sarah Sands:- The Sunday Telegraph, 2005-6
                Janet Street-Porter:- The Independent on Sunday, 1999-2002
                Rebekah Wade (Brooks):- NOTW 2000-2003, The Sun, 2003- 2009
                Tina Weaver:- the Sunday Mirror 2001-Present
                Patience Wheatcroft:- The Sunday Telegraph 2006-7

                Nail on the head scottycelt. Absolutely bang on the head.
                Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.

                Mark Twain.

                Comment

                • John Skelton

                  What's the collective term for a group of sad little men rubbing their inadequacies, fears and festering hatred of women together in public - a Platform 3?

                  There is one current editor of a 'major' circulation UK newspaper who is not male. So if Rebekah Wade / Brooks got her editorial jobs on the basis of reverse 'sexism' then reverse 'sexism' doesn't seem to have taken great hold, does it?

                  Comment

                  • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                    Gone fishin'
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 30163

                    Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                    You are evidently inclined to support the Murdoch multinational media empire
                    Can't say I've noticed.
                    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                    Comment

                    • Beef Oven

                      Originally posted by John Skelton View Post
                      What's the collective term for a group of sad little men rubbing their inadequacies, fears and festering hatred of women together in public - a Platform 3?

                      There is one current editor of a 'major' circulation UK newspaper who is not male. So if Rebekah Wade / Brooks got her editorial jobs on the basis of reverse 'sexism' then reverse 'sexism' doesn't seem to have taken great hold, does it?
                      I've never been called a 'sad and little man' before! I think I might be offended!!!

                      Comment

                      • Mr Pee
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 3285

                        Originally posted by John Skelton View Post
                        What's the collective term for a group of sad little men rubbing their inadequacies, fears and festering hatred of women together in public - a Platform 3?
                        You tell me. You started it with your pointless list of newspaper editors.

                        Besides, I don't fear or hate women. As a matter of fact I rather like them. And none of the ones with whom I have been intimately acquainted have ever accused me of being "little". Just the opposite in fact....
                        Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.

                        Mark Twain.

                        Comment

                        • aka Calum Da Jazbo
                          Late member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 9173

                          ...there may be no great conspiracy, no great cock up ..... maybe they are just like that .... a class in and for itself the rich and the power seekers .... you don't have to say anything .... just be oneself .... and subtle not coarse .... and everyone will just instinctively know eh ....

                          i think that Dave George and Jeremy etc actually hate their ex Oxbridge peers at the BBC and other such places, in fact i suspect two very antagonistic tribes at the heart of the establishment .... and all our politics etc is a war between them for supremacy ... money/power versus ideas/culture .. an intractable opposition between the scholars and the hearties .... didn't E Waugh write a book or two about this sort of thing?
                          According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

                          Comment

                          • scottycelt

                            What's wrong with sad little men, anyway ... aren't they entitled to express their views just like happy big women ?

                            I find such an emotionalist/dimensionist/sexist attitude quite appalling in today's supposedly tolerant society.

                            Comment

                            • french frank
                              Administrator/Moderator
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 30256

                              Originally posted by scottycelt View Post
                              today's supposedly tolerant society.
                              It's a bit like a seesaw, isn't it? Tolerant in some ways and as intolerant as it ever has been in others ...
                              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                              Comment

                              • Simon

                                Originally posted by John Skelton View Post
                                What's the collective term for a group of sad little men rubbing their inadequacies, fears and festering hatred of women together in public - a Platform 3?
                                Inadequacy? Fear? Festering hatred of women?

                                Oh, come on. Don't hold back. Surely you can make up some other jibes. Why not call them racists, perverts and psychopaths too? After all, there's just the same amount of evidence for that as there is for the other character traits you list.

                                That is, none.

                                Comment

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