English National Anthem

[Norfolk Born]

Crikey, you might well be the rightful heir to the throne, BBM ...

That reminds me of a line from Ginsberg (aka Kenneth Williams) in 'Round The Horne' - or it might have been 'Beyond Our Ken' -
'Now you see the cunning simplicity of my plan, Mr Horne ...only 465 more assassinations and I shall be Queen'

[Stunsworth]

John Cage 4:33. If the Spanish can have an anthem without words I don't see why we can't go one better and have one that also lacks music.

[amateur51]

That reminds me of a line from Ginsberg (aka Kenneth Williams) in 'Round The Horne' - or it might have been 'Beyond Our Ken' -
'Now you see the cunning simplicity of my plan, Mr Horne ...only 465 more assassinations and I shall be Queen'

[amateur51]

There is, too the inconsistency of having "God Save the Queen" to represent England, which really covers all the home nations, while the others have their own. I mentioned earlier that "Land of Hope and Glory" is used by England for the Commonwealth Games, but this too is British rather than English, whereas "Jerusalem" specifically mentions England in the text.

Going off at a tangent, my favourite national anthems are the Russian and the Italian...

Two wonderful tunes I agree EA - my favourite is the Italian, especially when played at the Rugby Internationals - it's like a mini-opera and takes weeks to play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7pmy-u1awI

[BBMmk2]

Crikey, you might well be the rightful heir to the throne, BBM ...

My family tree seems to link up with the Scottish Royal Stuarts during the reign of King james VI of Scotland and I of England!! I. I am a descendant of John of Gaunt.

[scottycelt]

My family tree seems to link up with the Scottish Royal Stuarts during the reign of King james VI of Scotland and I of England!! I. I am a descendant of John of Gaunt.

No wonder you're not short of brass ... :o

[barber olly]

... good lord, little englanderism is so depressing!

Me, I think Waterloo Sunset or Village Green Preservation Society will do just fine ...

Waterloo Sunset is a great song but too London-centric for a National anthem. And Jerusalem is a great tune, but are the links with Israel and Palestine wholly appropriate for an English anthem? I think it needs a new song and a new tune, but it needs to have the fervour of Trelawny or Land of my Fathers!

[barber olly]

Whatever you English choose, it'll be a mighty relief to the rest of us when you finally make up your minds ...

Unless you can make positive suggestions I think it's really little to do with you!

[scottycelt]

Unless you can make positive suggestions I think it's really little to do with you!

On reflection, you are absolutely correct, Sir ... I hereby apologise profusely to anyone here who was in the slightest offended by my grossly rude and impertinent comment ...

[BBMmk2]

No wonder you're not short of brass ... :o

Probably wqhy i love brass bands!! :)

[Chris Newman]

Land of Hope and Glory: super melody but the words are not suitable for a Twenty First Century anthem: Sir Edward did not like them either. They are too close to the verse omitted from God Gave the Queen and call for expansionism.

Jerusalem: another super melody. Blake's poem is a thing of great beauty and in its mystical way a thing of wonderful sentiment. However it would be totally misconstrued by other nations and is hardly understood by a lot of the English.

I agree that Purcell's Fairest Isle is a much better choice. It has a brilliant melody and does not offend with its lyrics. Again a lot of modern English would not understand them. The first verse is super for describing the attractive beauty of the land. The second verse of Dryden's harks back to love stories than wind through the masque King Arthur and rather emphasises them ()at the expense of one's love of the Isle which could even prove attractive to Venus and Cupid. Maybe new words for the second verse praising our national character could be written.

Fairest isle, all isles excelling,
Seat of pleasure and of love
Venus here will choose her dwelling,
And forsake her Cyprian grove.
Cupid from his fav'rite nation
Care and envy will remove;
Jealousy, that poisons passion,
And despair, that dies for love.

Gentle murmurs, sweet complaining,
Sighs that blow the fire of love
Soft repulses, kind disdaining,
Shall be all the pains you prove.
Ev'ry swain shall pay his duty,
Grateful ev'ry nymph shall prove;
And as these excel in beauty,
Those shall be renown'd for love.

Not many nation's have a near Waltz for their Anthem like us. Sir George Solti told a tale where he was caught out by this at his first engagement in Britain where he thought he could conduct everything without a score. He did not rehearse the anthem thinking it would be unnecessary and that he could go along with the orchestra who were amused by by his attempt to start in a grand 4:4 time.

[ahinton]

Land of Hope and Glory: super melody but the words are not suitable for a Twenty First Century anthem: Sir Edward did not like them either. They are too close to the verse omitted from God Gave the Queen and call for expansionism.

Jerusalem: another super melody. Blake's poem is a thing of great beauty and in its mystical way a thing of wonderful sentiment. However it would be totally misconstrued by other nations and is hardly understood by a lot of the English.

I agree that Purcell's Fairest Isle is a much better choice. It has a brilliant melody and does not offend with its lyrics. Again a lot of modern English would not understand them. The first verse is super for describing the attractive beauty of the land. The second verse of Dryden's harks back to love stories than wind through the masque King Arthur and rather emphasises them ()at the expense of one's love of the Isle which could even prove attractive to Venus and Cupid. Maybe new words for the second verse praising our national character could be written.

Fairest isle, all isles excelling,
Seat of pleasure and of love
Venus here will choose her dwelling,
And forsake her Cyprian grove.
Cupid from his fav'rite nation
Care and envy will remove;
Jealousy, that poisons passion,
And despair, that dies for love.

Gentle murmurs, sweet complaining,
Sighs that blow the fire of love
Soft repulses, kind disdaining,
Shall be all the pains you prove.
Ev'ry swain shall pay his duty,
Grateful ev'ry nymph shall prove;
And as these excel in beauty,
Those shall be renown'd for love.

Not many nation's have a near Waltz for their Anthem like us. Sir George Solti told a tale where he was caught out by this at his first engagement in Britain where he thought he could conduct everything without a score. He did not rehearse the anthem thinking it would be unnecessary and that he could go along with the orchestra who were amused by by his attempt to start in a grand 4:4 time.

I'm relieved to learn that I'm not alone in advocating Fairest Isle as the British National Anthem if indeed Britain has to have one at all! A fine melody, neither royalist nor anti-royalist sentiments nor, in its use of the superlative "fairest", likely to upset any other currently independent European states except perhaps Iceland and Malta...

[PatrickOD]

I'm relieved to learn that I'm not alone in advocating Fairest Isle as the British National Anthem if indeed Britain has to have one at all! A fine melody, neither royalist nor anti-royalist sentiments nor, in its use of the superlative "fairest", likely to upset any other currently independent European states except perhaps Iceland and Malta...

An elegant bit of swerving there, ahinton, but I'm afraid I have to call for at least a scrum. The video evidence will show clearly that Ireland is still an isle and as such will dispute the very first line of your admittedly lovely song.

[Flosshilde]

Is the UK national anthem the only one that is really about the head of state rather than actual nation?

[ahinton]

An elegant bit of swerving there, ahinton, but I'm afraid I have to call for at least a scrum. The video evidence will show clearly that Ireland is still an isle and as such will dispute the very first line of your admittedly lovely song.

On the contrary - a most inelegant bit of carelessness on my part, for which no mea culpa will adequately make up! That said, Ireland remains a two-nation isle, rather as is the isle that includes Haiti and the Dominican Republic, in the sense that it doesn't have a coastline all round it as does Britain and the others that I mentioned. Whilst the current constituent parts of Britain are indeed likewise, considering the idea of an "English National Anthem" is, to me, of less importance than discussing an improved anthem for Britain in its totality; surely, the time to do that is when England is, or is about to become, a nation in its own right rather than now when that is a mere future likelihood and not a fait about to be accompli.

No need for a scrum, though...