What makes you think you're not a racist?

[Pilchardman]

Oooops, straw man time!

Where is the straw man?

[Pilchardman]

The word "racist" is a non-word, an error, a spelling mistake. It grates terribly. The correct word is "racialist."

Enoch Powell: "The adjective 'racialist' has gained a strange sort of currency in recent years and seems to wear all sorts of meanings. I have even once or twice heard it applied to myself."

:D I admire your pedantry, but that ship's sailed, Canute. 'Racism' has been used since the 1930s, and has long been in the OED.

[amateur51]

However, Multiculturalism has muddied the waters so that now people can claim not to know whether it is racist for left handed people to give money to Asian shopkeepers, and so on. This is the result of a bureaucratic culture - and industry behind it - which seeks to divide people into races, as assign them appropriate cultures.

I'm a left-hander turning 60 at the end of the year and an experienced shopper to boot.

I have never once given thought to my being a left-hander in relation to Asian shop-keepers.

Could you explain your point please?

[jean]

The word "racist" is a non-word, an error, a spelling mistake.

Not any more, Sidney.

According to the OED, racialist is 'An earlier term than racist n., but now largely superseded by it.'

Racist is preferred these days I suppose because it is formed in a similar way to terms such as sexist, ageist, and so on where the -ist denotes discrimination on the grounds of sex, age, or whatever (not the only thing the suffix -ist can denote, but the others aren't relevant to this discussion).

Enoch Powell: "The adjective 'racialist' has gained a strange sort of currency in recent years and seems to wear all sorts of meanings. I have even once or twice heard it applied to myself."

If he only heard it once or twice, he wasn't listening.

[amateur51]

Shame they're not showing in London...

I'm completely lost with this thread; seems to be bogged down in semantics.

I fear you are correct S_A ... and not for the first time

[amateur51]

but I think the term is valid because it stresses "culture", which is not the same as race.

But we already know that.

Oh where is that :doh; function??

[jean]

That's right.

As I said earlier in the thread, race is itself a pretty flaky term, but if we take it as meaning something like skin colour or ethnic origin, then there's nothing at all I can think of as cultural that is coterminous with race.

But that is precisely why people use two terms to separate the two things - and yet in the post I'm replying to, you insist that using both terms is to conflate the two.

This makes no sense to me.

[Pilchardman]

I'm a left-hander turning 60 at the end of the year and an experienced shopper to boot.

I have never once given thought to my being a left-hander in relation to Asian shop-keepers.

Could you explain your point please?

Forgive my writing style. I'm pointing out that it is not racist to proffer cash with your left hand. It is however, the kind of nonsense that Multiculturalism as a bureaucratic orthodoxy gives rise to, because it confuses culture and race. It is a myth, but one that is taught at diversity training seminars. But this is just the kind of thing that the reactionary right will grab hold of.

[Pilchardman]

But we already know that.

You may, but policy makers do not. Or rather, they want to blur the distinctions. Have a look at pronouncements on race by politicians. Have a look at the attempts to make criticism of religion equivalent to racism.

[amateur51]

Where is the straw man?

Lying flat on its back - that's what straw men do.

See Flossie's post#120 and your response #124

[Pilchardman]

Lying flat on its back - that's what straw men do.

See Flossie's post#120 and your response #124

Yes. Have done. What is your point? Flosshilde was, I think, mistaking the terms.

Did you read the Malik article?

[MrGongGong]

Forgive my writing style. I'm pointing out that it is not racist to proffer cash with your left hand. It is however, the kind of nonsense that Multiculturalism as a bureaucratic orthodoxy gives rise to, because it confuses culture and race. It is a myth, but one that is taught at diversity training seminars. But this is just the kind of thing that the reactionary right will grab hold of.

It's always easy to find a single thing that seems ridiculous and then dismiss everything connected based on that. I have no experience of "diversity training" but would you say that its a good thing for people to be more aware of how others might perceive their actions ? An example of this , not based on racism, racialism, multiculturalism etc etc ........ I have for many years worked with students with autism, one of the things that many like to do (for some people this is a need rather than a like ) is to get a sense of the building you are in and its boundaries. Some people like to walk round touching all the walls, some like to go in the room upstairs or underneath so that they get a sense by physically being in those spaces of where they are. Now for some, this behaviour might seem a little odd or irrational but I have done performances where as part of the preparation we visited the Hall and explored it before we rehearsed our music etc It would seem to me that it would be a good thing for the people who work in the venue to have some awareness of the needs of others, actually its simply polite and in reality very easy.
Another example, when I studied the Sitar I became aware that it was considered rude to show your bare feet to the person sitting in front of you playing, there are simple reasons why that is the case. It takes very little to be respectful and consider other peoples sensitivities even if one doesn't understand them. This everyday stuff is many miles away from condoning homophobic religious beliefs or FGM.

Do we stop trying to understand others ?
If so, the Asperger's students that I am making a piece with in January don't stand a chance

[John Skelton]

Lying flat on its back - that's what straw men do.

See Flossie's post#120 and your response #124

I don't think that's fair (or true). There is an argument to be made about the effects of and reasons for eliding "race" and "culture" (and about the development of niche 'cultural' markets). I don't understand what it is you understand Pilchardman to be saying . I don't think it's particularly obscure, though - or unreasonable or unreasoned. (Nor does it have anything to do with stopping trying to understand "others." Though it may have to do with the substitution of an obsession with a vague and wide concept of 'otherness' for an involvement in real politics. People cease to be workers and become identified as others with an otherness to be valued. They lose political identity - or the capacity to be political subjects - in the name of a certain subjectivity).

[jean]

I'm pointing out that it is not racist to proffer cash with your left hand.

I agree.

It is however, the kind of nonsense that Multiculturalism as a bureaucratic orthodoxy gives rise to, because it confuses culture and race. It is a myth, but one that is taught at diversity training seminars.

Now you're doing exactly what you accuse the multiculturalists of doing, and yourself confusing culture and race!

In fact, proffering cash or anything else with the left hand to a Hindu could be intended as an insult. I am sure most Hindus living in this society would be aware that most British people are not aware of this, and would therefore not interpret it as an insult, but there's no harm at all in informing yourself of the possible interpretation.

[Pilchardman]

It's always easy to find a single thing that seems ridiculous and then dismiss everything connected based on that. I have no experience of "diversity training" but would you say that its a good thing for people to be more aware of how others might perceive their actions ? An example of this , not based on racism, racialism, multiculturalism etc etc ........ I have for many years worked with students with autism, one of the things that many like to do (for some people this is a need rather than a like ) is to get a sense of the building you are in and its boundaries. Some people like to walk round touching all the walls, some like to go in the room upstairs or underneath so that they get a sense by physically being in those spaces of where they are. Now for some, this behaviour might seem a little odd or irrational but I have done performances where as part of the preparation we visited the Hall and explored it before we rehearsed our music etc It would seem to me that it would be a good thing for the people who work in the venue to have some awareness of the needs of others, actually its simply polite and in reality very easy.
Another example, when I studied the Sitar I became aware that it was considered rude to show your bare feet to the person sitting in front of you playing, there are simple reasons why that is the case. It takes very little to be respectful and consider other peoples sensitivities even if one doesn't understand them. This everyday stuff is many miles away from condoning homophobic religious beliefs or FGM.

Do we stop trying to understand others ?
If so, the Asperger's students that I am making a piece with in January don't stand a chance

Hi Mr Gongong. I also have experience of people with autism. No, I don't think we should stop trying to understand other, quite the opposite. I also do not oppose diversity training. Again, quite the reverse. What I deplore is the spread of confusion and myths under the guise of antiracism, and (as JS eloquently put it), the eliding of race and culture, and the effects of and reasons for that.