School rolls: 'fewer whites than ethnics in many London boroughs'.

[MrGongGong]

All very interesting statistics
but what some folk seem to deduce from these is quite bizarre !
the assumption is always that this is a great problem and shows how we are all going to hellinahandcart
based on assumptions about education that seem to have little substance

someone drove through London and saw lots of "non white" people
no sh*t Sherlock
it's obviously a big problem for them
but not for most of us

[Lateralthinking1]

I am not saying that it is a problem for me or that it should be for you. I'm thinking of how it is more difficult for teachers who are there daily and particularly for all of the children.

Next time Mr GG you invite 30 people round for a Christmas meal and cook something different for each of them, do let us know how straightforward is was for you and why it wasn't any more difficult than serving up turkey to all.

This is the essential point. It has nothing to do with the question of whether you or I like Chinese, Indian and Italian food as well. To me, it is basic common sense.

[MrGongGong]

but you are guessing and assuming that this is difficult based on what you THINK teachers do
I'm going to another inner London school with similar demographics tomorrow on another project , I don't expect it to be much different to today
actually I know it wont as i've worked there before ..........

your scenario is NOT the experience that many teachers have

people assume that pupils who are described as having English as a second language can't speak English at all
when the truth is completely different

do you really think that one teacher stands at the front of 30 people barking instructions in a language that the pupils don't understand ???????

go and ask one !

[Mr Pee]

Why was it relevant to pass on this specific feature? What other features did he pass on - height, weight, for example? As Jean said, it would be relevant to a police investigation, but not as gossip passed on to people who had no close connection with him apart from the spurious one of 'following' him on Twitter.

Gosh, you're very quick to pass judgement on somebody who has been violently assaulted, and quite possibly still mentally scarred by the experience. You seem more concerned with giving the benefit of the doubt to the muggers than the victim- although that's no surprise given your form.

How is it "gossip" to relate the most obvious feature of his attackers???

Perhaps you'd rather the victim had described his assailants thus:-

Height- average, weight- not sure, skin colour- Ooh, I'd better not mention that in case it discombobulates some Guardian readers.

[Lateralthinking1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4GXAmB1w6o

[John Skelton]

The victim was of course in shock.

If I was in shock I don't think tweeting about it would be one of my initial reactions. Of course, people differ .

Surely the only way someone would be "on a live television programme with [their] leg hanging off" would be if it was news footage? They'd be there involuntarily. Quite unlike tweeting. It would be odd walking into a TV studio, leg hanging off, and saying: "I'm available for interview" ...?

[Lateralthinking1]

Judging by your name, we are distantly related on my mother's mother's side. The spelling is slightly different but they were illiterate. Genuinely. They started with "Skil" with one "l". Sorry to break the bad news to you.

[MrGongGong]

Here's a list of people who probably have English as a "second language"

Mitsuko Uchida
Daniel Barenboim
Esa Pekka Salonen
Andris Nelsons
Sakari Oramo
Vladimir Ashkenazy

etc etc

communication must be totally impossible for them !

[Lateralthinking1]

I would be more impressed if you could supply a list of car mechanics and care home workers. Anyone really with an IQ not in the top 2%. You also don't mention whether they were taught in schools where there are 10 or 20 first languages. I can tell you the answer. None of them were. What we are witnessing is a social experiment which places children's welfare last, however much many in the education system are performing like Paul Daniels to make it work.

[Flosshilde]

I doubt he was thinking that clearly about the niceties of what he was tweeting shortly after such an experience.

I find it bizarre that he was thinking about tweeting shortly after being violently assaulted at all; if he was able to think of doing such a thing he was also capable of thinking about what he was saying. My first reaction would be to go to the police and/or the nearest A&E, if I had suffered any injury, & then get home. When I got home I might want to talk to a friend about it, probabably at length - not tell a large number of strangers in a message limited to 140 characters.

[MrGongGong]

I would be more impressed if you could supply a list of car mechanics and care home workers. Anyone really with an IQ not in the top 2%. You also don't mention whether they were taught in schools where there are 10 or 20 first languages. I can tell you the answer. None of them were. What we are witnessing is a social experiment which places children's welfare last, however much the education system is performing like Ali Baba to make it work.

how do you know this ?
do you have evidence ?
or are you simply making it up ?
because my experience of working in many schools that have this demographic doesn't fit
now it might be that the 30 or so schools i've worked in over the last 5 years are exceptions ?
and there are places where there are great difficulties due to management, funding and class sizes

I have met few pupils who have ESL who don't speak English
some people who arrive from other countries don't
but
as has been pointed out, many people who are described as ESL have families who have been here for several generations
and Wales ???? hummmmmm many children in Wales learn Welsh as a FIRST language as do people who learn BSL

[Lateralthinking1]

Flosshilde - Yes, I agree but that is more about our ages. I would provide an update here on my toothache but the codeine tablets have dulled down the agony a little so I have no urge to let it all out as I did earlier in the week. You will notice that generally threads get going when people feel discomfort on hearing the latest nonsense in the news. Then they stop writing on that topic. I don't see huge amounts of difference except that in the case of a mugging the impact is more direct and felt more acutely.

Mr GG - I changed it from Ali Baba to Paul Daniels. The first didn't make sense. Initially I changed it to Ali Bongo which did make sense but I withdrew it in case it had negative racial connotations. This is genuine and not a set-up. If I was in pain, I might not have thought so carefully. I don't know if tweets can be recalled. I have been involved in a school of the kind mentioned as a volunteer. The pupils were delightful and it seemed orderly and vibrant. However, the teachers are in a cleft stick, aren't they? If they admit to difficulties, their school will be less popular with parents and Ofsted will be onto them like a ton of bricks.

[Flosshilde]

You also don't mention whether they were taught in schools where there are 10 or 20 first languages.

Yet another egregious assumption, that having ten or twenty children for whom English is not their first language is a problem - as I've said, the majority of such children will be able to speak English (some possibly better than those for whom English is their first language)

What we are witnessing is a social experiment which places children's welfare last, however much many in the education system are performing like Paul Daniels to make it work.

No, it's not a 'social experiment' - that's the language of the Daily Mail. It's life. Perhaps you should go & live in another country. Perhaps you'd prefer France, as their approach to 'immigrants' might suit you rather better. Or an uninhabited island, & avoid all those aspects of life that you dislike.

[Lateralthinking1]

Well, you are in Glasgow so you are hardly close to the changes.

[Flosshilde]

What?!