Back to analogue TV!

[Lateralthinking1]

Someone said today that analogue radio is to be retained. Is this true?

[Norfolk Born]

Not sure about that, but the deadline for The Great Analogue Switch Off has been repeatedly postponed, and now seems to depend as much as anything on the number of people who will choose to listen to digital radio (as against the number who will theoretically be able to receive it).

[mangerton]

Anna

Sets with Freeview installed are probably a good buy

With analogue switch off less than a year away - if it hasn't happened already - would it not be extremely sharp practice to try to sell anything else?

Unless of course the sets were clearly marked "Will be virtually useless very soon!".

(Please note, I said "virtually". I know about digiboxes, freesat, sky/cable boxes, still could be used for VCR and DVD playback.....)

[Ferretfancy]

mangerton,

There's a little misunderstanding here, My point was merely that not all sets with built in Freeview tuners provide the flexibility that some people might need when considering hard disc recording or hard disc to DVD. I accept that older models will become obsolete, but the main thing is to ensure that there are appropriate inputs at the back to allow you to use other components, including internet connection and anything else that might come along.

[mangerton]

Ff, thanks, yes, I see what you mean, and I quite agree. My flatscreen Tv is festooned with sockets of one sort or another, virtually all of which I use. This includes a USB socket which can be used to show slides, play music, or update the software, which quite surprised me.

[old khayyam]

Not sure about that, but the deadline for The Great Analogue Switch Off has been repeatedly postponed, and now seems to depend as much as anything on the number of people who will choose to listen to digital radio (as against the number who will theoretically be able to receive it).

What raises my hackles is how they really seem to want us to go digital, for some reason. They are plugging DAB every which way they can, with the overhanging threat of Changeover implying '..or you wont have any radio at all' (which to me is not much of a threat).

[Dave2002]

In the meantime Freeview digital TV signal levels in my area (Guildford direction south to south-west of London) still do appear to be well down. I can now get some of the digital stations using a booster unit, but aerials and sets which worked a few weeks ago no longer work with a simple and direct connection. The roof aerial still works though, so maybe I need to rewire the house to put in a coax feed with RF amplification round all the rooms. Not sure why, but I can get BBC Parliament, but not BBC News, or BBC 1-4. On the other hand I can get some of the film, music (!!) and shopping channels. I thought I was picking up from London, Crystal Palace, though yesterday when I scanned there was some evidence of stations from Cambridge (quite a way away) - at least according to some info which appeared on the screen. Odd!

[mangerton]

Dave,

This link: http://dmol.co.uk/mux.php

shows the allocation of channels before Digital switch over, which is the situation you are in in your area. You will see that BBC is divided over two multiplexes. It occurs to me that you could be picking up digital TV from a transmitter in East Anglia, which is currently in the middle of switching over.

If you "do" usenet, there's a lot of expert help on uk.tech.digital-tv

[Dave2002]

mangerton

Thanks for the suggestions and hints. I'll check out that website.

Looks like we're picking up Mux B, so should get BBC Four as well. Not sure what's happened to the other muxes - Mux 1 and 2 (oh how I miss Gay Rabbit and his friend Rabbit!).

Happened to note that last night we got a brilliant picture. Thought it might be the digital back (I wasn't in charge of the remote at the time), but it wasn't - it was still the analogue signal. Checking on the digital channels we could receive channel 81 (BBC Parliament), but not Channel 80 ((BBC News). I've not really had time to check this out more - other things have been more important, but there do seem to be odd things going on. The picture on 81 was (like the analogue) very good, but 80 - and other common channels, were none existant.

[teamsaint]

What raises my hackles is how they really seem to want us to go digital, for some reason. They are plugging DAB every which way they can, with the overhanging threat of Changeover implying '..or you wont have any radio at all' (which to me is not much of a threat).

I think we should be concerned about these changes, and especially the motivations of those who control the networks.

Oh, and this looks a pretty dodgy statistic :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/nov/30/digital-radio-switchover?newsfeed=true

28 % of all radio listening? really? I would love to know how that little gem was arrived at. Strip out internet listening(which in most cases for UK stations is just a convenience I suspect).
what proportion are choosing digital as a preference? Nobody in a car for a start.

Its politicians and"people in the industry" driving this. Tail wagging dog. Again.

[Dave2002]

I think we should be concerned about these changes, and especially the motivations of those who control the networks.

Oh, and this looks a pretty dodgy statistic :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/nov/30/digital-radio-switchover?newsfeed=true

28 % of all radio listening? really? I would love to know how that little gem was arrived at. Strip out internet listening(which in most cases for UK stations is just a convenience I suspect).
what proportion are choosing digital as a preference? Nobody in a car for a start.

Its politicians and"people in the industry" driving this. Tail wagging dog. Again.

There are people in the industry who are driving this. From a technical and commercial point of view, some of this does make sense. Proponents such as http://www.quentinhoward.com/flashes/intro.html make fairly strong cases, but they conveniently ignore many of the issues which would matter to Radio 3 listeners, such as sound quality. There is also obviously going to be a fudge at some time in the future when DAB will be taken to mean DAB2 or DAB+ or some other variant, which will deliver perceptually better quality for most people, though early DAB adopters will find that their kit becomes obsolete if that is introduced. It's my understanding that newer DAB sets will be DAB2/DAB+ compatibile, and may even be software upgradeable.

Re the statistics, the target they are considering is at least 50% of the total radio audience listening on digital channels. This includes DVB-T, Satellite and Internet. It also includes all those people listening to stations such as Ministry of Sound which are digital only. There is no requirement that 50% of people listening to BBC R4 or R3 should use digital. Also, I'm not sure if it takes into account listening hours, or listeners. Clearly if a lot of people listen in cars, then the listening hours figure would be diluted considerably, as almost all cars only have analogue sets. "They" will no doubt use whichever figure gives them the best chance of moving the way that they want to go.

One argument which is used is that people who are interested in sound quality will be prepared to pay for it, and may use internet or other services in order to achieve better quality. There may also be a rich versus poor argument - the rich people with large CD, SACD, DVD collections can listen to their own collections, while everyone else has to "make do" with radio. There are issues about what radio is, and who it is intended for.

In the meantime, my TV situation has not improved - but maybe later on this week I'll have another go at checking this out.

[Norfolk Born]

Have you considered Freesat? You lose a few channels, including Yesterday, Dave, 5Star and 5USA, but gain others, the signal is consistently excellent (here in Suffolk at any rate), and any retuning, which is prompted on-screen, takes one click and about 20 seconds. (Forgive me if you've already considered and dismissed this option).

[salymap]

I have never left Analogue TV when I can get it. Freeview was fine until earlier this year, when it went haywire.
Someone coming on Friday next to bring a new Freeview+digital recorder with series link. It says in the BBC booklet that the installer will replace the aerial at no extra cost. As my last £150.00 aerial has fallen apart, I hope this will be true. This is the BBC switchover help scheme.

[mangerton]

In the meantime, my TV situation has not improved - but maybe later on this week I'll have another go at checking this out.

As you seem to be in an area which is in the middle of switching, it might be worth doing a re-tune.

[Dave2002]

For various reasons not connected with the switchover our TV viewing was disturbed over the last three weeks. I have now re-aligned the satellite dish for the Freesat set, which was tricky, but I eventually managed it with the help of an older receiver which has reasonable signal strength and quality meters built in.

Then I thought I'd revisit the Freeview situation on the small TVs with the portable aerials. Oddly we can now get almost all TV the stations we want, but not BBC Parliament, and the BBC Radio stations seem to have gone this time. I did a complete reset from scratch on both sets, and the same stations are missing on each. The larger Freeview set connected to the roof top aerial still pulls in all the stations I think.

Maybe all the stations will eventually re-appear, though we do have a more useful selection now.