The Cost of Motoring

[Guest]

In 1947, my father bought a four bedroom detached house for £1,500. It would now fetch £240.000.
That's 160 times as much!

In the same year, he bought a 1939 Standard 14hp saloon for £340. So by the rate of inflation the price now for an 8 year old saloon would be £54,400!

Petrol then cost 2s6d per gallon. So now should it not be £20 per gallon? But we are only paying slightly less than £6.

Car tax for a year was £15. So that equates to £2,400 today, but my tax on a 2 litre car is only £204.

My father's income as an Admin Officer in the Civil Service was around £500 p.a. That should now be £80,000 p.a

So what are we complaining about?

VH

BTW Smokers who paid 4s9d per 20 in 1950 should now be paying £35 per pack of 20. (That's £245 Per week for a 20 a day person)

That would cut down polution!

[rauschwerk]

Er, slight fallacy underlying your arguments, VH. The rate of general price inflation is far less than the rate of property price inflation. RPI has risen by a factor of 32 since 1947.

So at that rate, petrol is somewhat more expensive in real terms now than then, the equivalent car purchase price would be £10,880 and the equivalent road tax £480.

[Lateralthinking1]

Quote - My father's income as an Admin Officer in the Civil Service was around £500 p.a. That should now be £80,000 p.a. So what are we complaining about?

That the full time salary for the grade above it in Central London was much less than £7,000 pa in 1985 and by 2010 it was still only approx £27,000? (You will recall that the argument for keeping salaries down during that 25 year long period, while much of the private sector had big salary increases, bonuses, shares and cheap mortgages, was that the public sector enjoyed preferential pensions. This is now about to be reneged on because the public sector has had it too good for too long apparently).

On house prices, a very senior Government economist argued with me that those were and by the laws of economics had to be linked to supply and demand. I don't believe it for one moment and never will do.

The number of new build homes in London in 2004 was the highest in more than 20 years. Prices continued to rise. There were about 70,000 empty homes in London at the time. Currently there are 100,000 empty homes in London. Prices are still rising.

[MrGongGong]

I thought it was just me ! (again )
when I point out to my retired father that the cost of motoring is less now than ever he always goes on about the price of petrol etc
BUT
when I was a student in the 1980's the only students with cars were either , mature students or the handful with rich parents
one of my neighbours who is 18 , works in a shop has a car
the students over the road , have cars
we live in a Victorian terrace

when i was that age people with "ordinary" jobs who were my age couldn't afford to drive

If I was in charge, i'd raise the driving age to 25, less accidents, less congestion and increase public transport !

[Lateralthinking1]

I find that a bit surprising to hear. I had a car at university - 1982-1985 - although admittedly none of my friends did. There were quite a few cars but there was still plenty of space in the car parks.

I bought that second hand car for £550. Earnings from a job I did for a year between school and university. The salary was £2,229pa.

Now, the car parks there are jam packed and with brand new vehicles. The reason is that the place tends to pull in a far higher percentage of public schools types than in our day, although academically it has slipped down the table.

While I was in permanent employment between 1985 and 2010, I was unable to afford to replace my vehicle when its days came to an end in early 1993. I have not been able to afford a car ever since. I have driven precisely once since 1993.

Along the way, I developed huge opposition to the kinds of car ownership we witness today. Three vehicles per household is not uncommon and I consider it unethical to the point of obscene.

[MrGongGong]

I think that's true of ALL universities and nothing to do with Private schools at all

[Lateralthinking1]

If that is the case, I would like to know how they get their money. A large percentage of the 50% do not have a paid gap year. If all these vehicles are bought by the parents, perhaps it is right after all that tuition fees should be set at the levels they are.

[MrGongGong]

How would I know ?
I could make it up Daily Mail style if you like

[Lateralthinking1]

I should say that many will be spending their maintenance loan of over £3000 pa on a vehicle and having their maintenance costs funded by their parents. It seems to me that such loans should not be available where the parents have a large income.

One part of the Government system treats students as adults who are financially independent of their parents. Another doesn't. Generally Government doesn't see this as illogical.

What I suggest could easily be arranged by the part that doesn't. Additionally, this wouldn't differ considerably from the earlier grant system where the grant was assessed on the basis of parental income but any overdraft was paid back by the student.

[John Wright]

Lateral, I think you are out of touch with modern living!

I was unable to afford to replace my vehicle when its days came to an end in early 1993. I have not been able to afford a car ever since.

It's a mistake to drive a car till it dies. To replace it costs many thousands of pounds you have to find all at once. Instead, every four years go to a garage and exchange your car for a younger car, additional cost then is about £2000 every four years, more affordable and you always have a decent car.

Along the way, I developed huge opposition to the kinds of car ownership we witness today. Three vehicles per household is not uncommon and I consider it unethical to the point of obscene.

Again what planet are you on? Family of three living in suburbs, all work in other parts of the county, poor bus service, hence three cars. Three salaries, three cars, affordable.

And keeps auto workers in jobs.

Recession in UK? Car plants are doing well including Ford, Vauxhall, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, all made in UK, total manufactured in 2010: 1,393,463. UK new car sales in 2010: 2,030,846 yes 2 million.

Just looked at my financial spreadsheet: my annual auto costs are just 5% of my earnings. My car though has done 80k, time to change. It's still worth about £6000. I'll change it for a 08 reg, will cost me £2000 in exchange.

[Bryn]

What's it like there on planet money-to-burn, John. I have never spent more than £750 on a replacement car, and each lasts me around 3 years. The current one is the only exception. It was left me by my father and had a book value of around £2,500 when I took it over. It has cost me far more in repairs and replacement parts than any of my earlier cars but when it eventually becomes uneconomical to repair I will go for another sub-£1,000 car to replace it.

[MrGongGong]

Indeed Bryn

My last car had 265,000 on the clock when I finally changed it for another one which has 100,000 to start with
second hand Steinway or brand new Chinese copy ? both cost more or less the same .........
Anyone who buys a new car or spends many "thousands of pounds" on one (unless you are doing the hobby thing with something vintage !) seems to be throwing money , and maybe more importantly valuable resources away.

The whole idea that you buy something for three years then get rid of it is fine for children's shoes but cars ??????
get yourself an old Volvo matey , goes on for ever ! (and you can get a harp , labrador, Aga and three bales of hay in the boot !!!)

[Dave2002]

Along the way, I developed huge opposition to the kinds of car ownership we witness today. Three vehicles per household is not uncommon and I consider it unethical to the point of obscene.

We have four, but one is very old and used for taking rubbish to the tip. The three of us who currently live in our house all have jobs, and it would be nigh on impossible to do these without the vehicles.

One of the vehicles (the largest) is very efficient, and uses less fuel than the others

What do you suggest we should do? Give up working, and sponge off society, or starve?

Sorry to have upset your ethical sensibilities!

[Chris Newman]

I hire a car when I need one, perhaps ten times a year. Holidays for example.

[Anna]

I've always bought low mileage (one careful lady owner typical Dealership blurb) and then chopped it in couple of years later for a similar. Make, model. Means nothing to me. My last was a Nissan, before that a Toyota!! (And that's my street-cred blown)

I don't have a car now No need, saves money, there is a bus stop end of road otherwise - I also got legs which seem to propel me without any trouble. If a car is needed then I can hire one but when visiting family, Sussex and Co. Durham then the train is brilliant, no stress being stuck on the M-whatever, book tickets in advance, no contest re expenditure. Do not miss a car at all.