The Cost of Motoring

[ahinton]

It seems to me that the only spending on cars that might be argued to seem profligate is that of purchasing new ones, given that by far the greatest depreciation in any car's value occurs during its warranty period and, clearly, the more expensive the car, the greater that depreciation. That said, when making such purchasing decisions, much also depends upon the extent to which the car needs to be used; those who need to travel many tens of thousands of miles annually will as a rule be more reluctant to buy an old car with a large figure on the clock. It's all very well people arguing that no one should have to do this, as though it's somehow immoral and unnecessary but, whatever the virtues of public transport, it is not always feasible to use it for all journeys even if there are good flights, trains, etc., available, because nothing goes directly from A to B like one's own car and there's a much greater limit to what can be carried on public transport (especially planes). That said, I'm all for using planes and trains when it IS feasible to do so - and especially when it's more sensible to do so; however, cost has to be taken into consideration and that of some long distance train journeys - especially when compounded by taxis to and from departure and arrival stations - can be prohibitive. Furthermore, planes and trains don't always go when one may want or need to travel, especially during the night. From where I'm sitting, the nearest bus (not that I've travelled on one) is some two miles away so, were I to walk that distance in order to use bus services to get to my nearest train station, I'd need to allow at least 75 minutes at this end of the journey between leaving and boarding a train (provided that said train's not running late, of course). If, however, like Chris, the need to travel is less than once per month on average, having one's own car might indeed seem to be a rather pointless expense.

[teamsaint]

just to pop back to the university thing, there are, by almost any definition, at least 10% of the population who could be described as very comfortably off....and almost all their kids are at university (since most of them are part of the 7% privately educated).

anyway, way back when in the 1980's, there were only around 5 %at university, and things like gap years weren't that common.

Also, conspicuous upper middle class consumption was just a glint in the politicians eyes...i know, because I went to a "good " private school, and very few of us went to uni with cars.

[John Wright]

What's it like there on planet money-to-burn, John. I have never spent more than £750 on a replacement car, and each lasts me around 3 years.

Eh, as I said to Lateral, we don't all seem to live in the same world. I have to have 'money to burn' because I have money to earn, customers to visit, tight schedules, need a reliable car, and in effect need to impress the customers. Can't run a business in a clapped out old Volvo. My 04 Audi has done 85 k and has started first time every day of its life. Drive to France or Scotland, no need to check anything, get in and drive.

[Lateralthinking1]

Some of these posts are reassuring. Some aren't. I am just inside Greater London. I live just off one of six very steep hill roads that are almost in parallel. I think they are 1 in 9s. At the bottom is a long residential valley road. At the top is a primary school.

1968. We lived in the valley road. Every day I walked up to the school aged 5 and back down again. About 20 minutes in each direction. No problem. We didn't have a car. There was no public transport.

2011. Almost every front garden has had grass removed so that three cars can be crammed in on concrete. On many there is at least one 4 by 4. Almost every child is driven up the hills, many in a 4 by 4. One mother in each and her children. Never anyone elses. Car sharing is clearly not an option for these people. Everything they do is arrogant and selfish.

There is now a hoppa bus. It runs up at the same time. No child is ever on board. The residents with the 4 by 4s fought tooth and nail against it even though it is a lifeline to some of the elderly. They deliberately park their 4 by 4s in the spaces allocated as bus stops. The drivers also frequently virtually drive at the very small number of youngsters who do walk and get in their way. Parking around the school is horrendous and the line of parked cars is the length of half the walk.

I do the walk daily, often mid-morning. There are five regular walkers at that time. A 94 year old woman and a 93 year old woman, both going shopping. An 85 year old man walking his dog. A guy who is probably over 80 taking his morning exercise. And the postman. These are very much the outer suburbs. While I understand that in some rural areas a couple of cars are often needed, I just don't accept that four cars are needed by any household. I would place a statutory limit on it or use a price mechanism.

Some of the less steep hills in the neighbourhood - http://morgenguard.com/images/fullpage/IMG_0048.jpg

[MrGongGong]

Eh, as I said to Lateral, we don't all seem to live in the same world. I have to have 'money to burn' because I have money to earn, customers to visit, tight schedules, need a reliable car, and in effect need to impress the customers. Can't run a business in a clapped out old Volvo. My 04 Audi has done 85 k and has started first time every day of its life. Drive to France or Scotland, no need to check anything, get in and drive.

What utter nonsense
my "clapped out old volvo" has 110 miles on the clock
starts every time
drove us to the south of France no problem
if i bothered to clean it would look shiny (it cost £3000 the price of a new one is about £2100)
who on earth is impressed by flashy cars anyway ?
you must deal with some rather "shallow" customers if they are more likely to do business with you if you have a shiny car

[Anna]

Some of these posts are reassuring. Some aren't. I am just inside Greater London. I live just off one of six very steep hill roads that are almost in parallel. I think they are 1 in 9s. http://morgenguard.com/images/fullpage/IMG_0048.jpg[/url]

One in 9? I live up a 1:25!! You soft Southeners!

[Lateralthinking1]

Fair point Anna. I have in the past walked twenty paces on my hands though. How many can you do? To make it fairer, you can let me have the number when you have not been wearing a rucksack.

[John Wright]

What utter nonsense
my "clapped out old volvo" has 110 miles on the clock
starts every time
drove us to the south of France no problem

You mean 110k

if i bothered to clean it would look shiny (it cost £3000 the price of a new one is about £2100)

You mean £21k ?

who on earth is impressed by flashy cars anyway ?
you must deal with some rather "shallow" customers if they are more likely to do business with you if you have a shiny car

Obviously you DO live in another world gonggong. A shiny car is just one indication of a successful business. Many customers will think twice about dealing with a business that doesn't look successful. I advise businesses on various subjects. Would you take expensive business advice from someone who can't drive a half-decent car and keep it looking nice?

[amateur51]

Would you take expensive business advice from someone who can't drive a half-decent car and keep it looking nice? [/QUOTE]You don't do much training in Peckham, do you John Wright?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/motoring/article-1089008/Wheel-millionaires-May-Del-Boys-Reliant-Robin-Trottermobile-goes-auction.html

[Dave2002]

One in 9? I live up a 1:25!! You soft Southeners!

???

[Dave2002]

I would place a statutory limit on it or use a price mechanism.

Some of the less steep hills in the neighbourhood - http://morgenguard.com/images/fullpage/IMG_0048.jpg

You obviously are one of that odd group of people who think that price mechanisms can really change behaviour. They may have a small effect, but not, perhaps, much more.

[Anna]

John's viewpoint is perfectly true. If you turn up by car to do business with someone then of course you are judged by your vehicle. It doesn't have to be new but it should be well cared for as that reflects the care you (presumably) put into the business.

I live near a primary and junior school. Those children who can access it easily walk but it covers a catchment area which includes many scattered hamlets/farms, there is no other option than to drive there. If I lived further out then I would have to have a car again unless I was close to a bus route. Many people here have to commute, sometimes long distances, public transport then is not an option and two cars are then needed, particularly if there are children with after-school activities. I used the local bus this morning (being local everyone knows everyone and their circumstances!) and well over 75% this morning are in fact car owners, they just choose not to take the car and the hassle of finding, and paying, for a parking space just to get a few groceries and, quite important to some, the bus is quite a lively social centre.

I have never bought into the car being a status symbol I'm afraid. To me the important thing is that it starts in the morning and gets me from A to B.

Lat, nice pic. I hadn't realised there was countryside in Croydon. My only memory of the place is of The Whitgift Centre. And no, I have never attempted to walk on my hands, neither do I own a rucksack!

???

Why so puzzled Dave, it's merely a hill (although our hills have an uncanny resemblence to mountains!)

[Serial_Apologist]

Why so puzzled Dave, it's merely a hill (although our hills have an uncanny resemblence to mountains!)

Possibly because, compared with 1:9, 1:25 is practically level! For every 25 feet (or whatever unit of measurement) you rise 1 foot, compared with for every 9 feet. (I can't remember if the longer measurement is along the hypoteneuse or the base line, but 1 in the ratio is the vertical). Nowadays steep hills are signposted as being 10%, 17% etc. No one has been able to explain to Tours Truly what this is a % of.

[Anna]

Oh Ratz! Did I mean 25% or 25:1 ?? Maths were never a strong point. Anyway, it's steep, start off in first and then a quick change to second if you're lucky, arrive at the top (walking) and You Thank the Lord for Sturdy Thighs!

[Serial_Apologist]

The steepest road in the country(I am told) was just around the corner from where I lived in well-named Totterdown, an inner city part of Bristol: 1 in 3! The pavement was in steps every metre or so. The bottom of the hill exited onto the Bath Road - I've no idea if anyone ever had brakes failure driving down it. Or up it, for that matter! I think the next most steep hills are Hard Knott Pass and Wrynose Pass in the Lake District: 4 gradients of 1 in 3 and a half. Our 1961 Hillman Minx boiled over; we had to get out and walk!