marthe
And if I looked like Brad Pitt I'd be a buff Orpington.
As they says in these parts, I'll get me coat.
And if I looked like Brad Pitt I'd be a buff Orpington.
As they says in these parts, I'll get me coat.
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Dear me, Mahlerei, the language divide has gotten the better of me! Brad Pitt I know, but buff Orpington? So sorry to be dense. I guess I'm not from these parts!Comment
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Morning marthe
Not to worry; it's just that I live in Orpington, Kent, whose two claims to fame are a famous Liberal election victory in the 1960s and a type of chicken, known as the buff Orpington. Youngsters here will tell you anyone who is handsome/fir is 'well buff'. Is that not teenspeak in the US?Comment
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hands across the ocean - the Buff Orpington meets the Rhode Island Red...Originally posted by Mahlerei View Post
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Mahlerei and Vinteuil, thank you for extending hands across the ocean and enlightening me about the Buff Orpington, a handsome bird indeed! Yes, Mahlerei "buff" is indeed teenspeak over here, though usually used without the "well". "Well buff" wouldn't be used over here. Most teens are liable to use "good' instead of "well," as in "I played good during the basketball game." It was always a struggle to get my teens to use "well" instead of "good." Not meaning to derail this thread...Comment
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Evening marthe
In UK teenspeak 'well' is an intensifier and is a substitute for 'very' ('he's well good at maths').
Back to the elections. Would being a Mormon still be a big obstacle to becoming President?Comment
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Weren't Mormons once polygamous? Some of them probably still are, I'd say.
I'm not a religious person, but even I would feel uneasy if a(nother) Catholic became U.S. President - because he/she would owe their ultimate loyalty not to their nation or the world but to some notional idea of a 'higher power'. We had quite enough of that with the closet Catholic Blair, so keep those ASPs coming.Comment
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Yes, Mormons were once polygamous, but the main body of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons) outlawed polygamy around 1890. However, some breakaway fundamentalist Mormons still practice polygamy. As for Catholic presidents, JFK has been the only one so far. He was well aware of the fear of many Protestant Americans that he might defer to the Catholic bishops or be influenced by the Pope. To allay these fears, he gave a speech on 12 Sept. 1960 to the Greater Houston Ministers Association (a group of Protestant ministers) in which he made his stand on religion and the presidency. He said: "I am not the Catholic candidate for president. I am the Democratic Party's candidate who happens to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my church on public matters, and the church does not speak for me." Also: "But if the time should ever come--- and I do not concede any conflict to be remotely possible--- when my office would require me to either violate my conscience or violate the national interest, then I would resign the office; and I hope any conscientious public servant would do the same."
All other US presidents have been either Protestant Christians or unaffliated but from a Protestant Christian background. By numbers there have been 12 Episcopalians, 8 Presbyterians, 4 Methodists, 4 Unitarians, 3 Disciples of Christ, 2 Congregationalists, 2 Dutch Reformed Church, 2 Quakers, 1 United Church of Christ. 6, including Abraham Lincoln and Thomas Jefferson, were without religious affliation when president but brought up within one of churches listed. Some, George W. Bush for example, were brought up in one church but joined another later in life.Comment
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Thanks Mahlerei. I did hear an English niece use that "well good" construction and though it rather strange. I'd never heard it before. It probably wasn't in use when I lived in England in the 70s.Originally posted by Mahlerei View Post
As for Mormons and the presidency, yes I think that Romney would have difficulty over his religion. For JFK, it was a long slog to convince mainstream Protestant Americans that he wasn't a stooge of Rome. Though most Mormons are quite mainstream, most people will lump them in with the fundamentalists who have had some bad press within the past couple of years. As noted in my previous post, all presidents, except JFK, have been Protestants Christians, either by affiliation with a church or by upbringing.Comment
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I can't understand why middle of the road people would view Obama's record as poor. Let's look at this from two perspectives:
1. British.
(i) Many of us want from a President minimal armed conflict. It is true that there has been Libya but the gung-ho call to arms was from our Government. Obama was initially commendably cautious. What we haven't had thank God is a hawkish international crusade. Whatever the Democrats do militarily when in power, their attitudes are different. I would say safer. This matters to me.
(ii) Health reforms. From this side of the pond they look unquestionably sensible. Of course, they have run into difficulties. America is a different beast when it comes to such matters. This is not to say that what has been attempted doesn't deserve praise.
(iii) The status quo. Yes, one might say that the economy hasn't improved and that there has been no solution to the Palestinian issue. I cannot feel that these predicaments would have been managed more effectively by the Republicans or another Democrat. And the economy went down the pan during the time of George W Bush.
(iv) An absence of corruption. It has been a long time since there has been a President with Obama's personal morality. Generally, his dignity has been impressive. For once, there has been a President who seems Presidential.
2. American.
(i) It might be that the average American is more inclined to wage war. The idea of the country dictating the pace on the world stage rather than responding to events. For such people, Obama could be seen as too cautious, even dithering. And yet they will have noted that he "got" Bin Laden and Gaddafi. It isn't as if Obama has been unsuccessful militarily.
(ii) Economically, the growing numbers of homeless and unemployed will be justified in having hoped for rather more. They may not be entirely convinced that the absence of delivery is largely down to systemic constraints. But if there is a sense of some lack of will to address the faltering economy and inequality, how many would sensibly believe that the Republicans would be the solution?
(iii) Race. I suspect that there is a racial factor. Some whites will never accept a black President. Some non-whites expected the moon on Obama's election in that very American Disneyland way. Whether a Mormon will have cross-spectrum appeal must be doubtful. Kennedy struggled in 1960 as a Catholic, winning by the smallest of margins.Comment
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I'm with Lat on this. Obama strikes me as a pretty benign President after the hawk-like Bush, although I was disappointed he didn't close Gitmo and that Bin Laden was shot rather than arrested and tried. I see the Republican hopefuls Cain and Bachmann would reinstate waterboarding if elected. Dear God, what a prospect.
marthe
Many thanks for the info on past Presidents and their religions. Most interesting.Comment
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Lateralthinking1
What sort of person/people do you have in mind when you make a comment about ‘the average American’?
And what is the idea based on?Comment
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Oh, you needn't worry, Mandy ... apart from JFK can you name any (other) Catholic US President? Hey, come on, there's a limit to all this political correctness, you know!Originally posted by Mandryka View Post
The secular world (now worshiping a 'higher power' called Mammon or the devil Marx) is moving forward apace and the Scottish Conservative Party has now bravely elected a 32-year old lesbian as its leader. Any far better qualified Catholic heterosexual male needn't have even bothered applying for the job, not like in the bad old days of Michael Ancram, that's for sure.
What the Scottish Conservative Party does today, the rest of the world ....
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Scottish , Conservative , Party ????
not sure if those words belong together in a sentence ?
Yes, the world is against the Catholics
how do you not know that the SCP hasn't elected a Catholic lesbian as a leader ?Comment
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doversoul - Well, it was a lazy phrase. I was really thinking of the typical floating voter. Not the religious Republicans. Not the Democrats who listen to indie music on college radio. As in the UK, it seems to me that a mid-range voter there is often voting against something rather than for something. The lesser of two evils. Here at most it is combined with a vague belief in the country's supposed values. In the US I think it would be underpinned by a much stronger sense of nationalism. The conviction that the biggest political sin of all would be to fail in making it plain to the rest of the world that America is in charge.Comment
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