U.S. Election, 2012

[Guest]

Obama may be beginning his final 12 months (or so) in office.

Since 2008, he has had an undistinguished record - inevitably, he was going to struggle to live up to his own hype (and the even wilder hype of those who thrust themselves upon his bandwagon), but he has not helped himself by his cold, aloof demeanour and seeming inability to win friends and influence people on the world stage.

In America itself, he has apparently failed to capture the public imagination. He is loathed by right-wingers as a socialist (though he is nothing of the kind) while his own natural constituency (the liberal soft left) long since went lukewarm on him.

His record as a President compares poorly with Jimmy Carter's; and that can't be a good thing.

For all that, I think it is in the world's interest for him to remain where he is. The current crop of Republican candidates look suitably scary (though I was pleased - and surprised - at how quickly 'Rick' Perry hit the buffers) and Obama - though far from being a successful President - is not as yet the abject failure GWB had proved himself to be by 2004.

Anyone placing any bets?

[marthe]

Too soon to say. The rabid Republicans are scary indeed!

[Mahlerei]

Morning marthe

Yes, the Republicans are terrifying. For all his faults Obama has brought much-needed coherence and dignity to the White House. Which is why I'm so surprised that just about every American I've met in the past few years loathes him.

As you seem to be a leftie, marthe, does that make you a Rhode Island Red? :)

[greenilex]

Funnily enough, my American family and friends still value Obama very highly, and will campaign for him again.

He isn't allowed much elbow-room.

[Mahlerei]

greenilex

Good for them. I hope he does make a second term.

[scottycelt]

Obama is the only candidate who appears to be a professional politician by UK standards. Even a tiny country like Ireland could provide an infinitely superior bunch of candidiates. The simple fact that the election will be for what is still the most powerful job in the world is almost beyond frightening.

BTW, is Perry trying to be Reagan 2, excruciating gaffes 'n' all ... ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15677595

[MrGongGong]

There is much to fear in some of the potential alternatives
its profoundly sad that Obama has been unable (is it possible for anyone to be able ?) to stand up to some of the more unpleasant tendencies of world and domestic politics.

The celebratory way that that the USA assassinated Bin Laden without recourse to international law was (IMV) a great mistake. For a black man to appear to preside over what amounted to a Lynching (which is NOT to say that the man in question was anything other than an evil terrorist who needed to be brought to justice !) is an image that many find difficult.

and the USA's stance over Palestine (with poodle Cameron joining in ) becoming part of UNESCO did much to reinforce the more extreme Zionist views in the USA and Israel. HE started up by appearing to stand up to Israel but (inevitably given how the USA is !) gave in

Having said this ..............

the alternatives are more than a little frightening

[Serial_Apologist]

We've now had 3 naff U.S. Presidents in a row. Four if you include Bush Sr. To me, it's symptomatic that "the land of the free", with all its money, power and resources, is no longer able to produce the kind of human being who can lead the country, let alone the world. We have too long been fed the clapped out myth that capitalism breeds the sort of ethos that best distinguishes enterprise and leadership.

Another own goal to right-wing ideologues.

[Norfolk Born]

To paraphrase Churchill: Obama may be imperfect, but all of the alternatives appear so much worse.

[vinteuil]

... no longer able to produce the kind of human being who can lead the country, let alone the world. :

... but then, I'm very wary of those who think the solution is a Man of Destiny - l'homme providentiel - who can lead us and save us. Altho' I enjoy Carlyle I have serious reservations about the whole 'The history of the world is but the biography of great men' approach ['On Heroes and Hero Worship']...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The celebratory way that that the USA assassinated Bin Laden without recourse to international law was (IMV) a great mistake. For a black man to appear to preside over what amounted to a Lynching (which is NOT to say that the man in question was anything other than an evil terrorist who needed to be brought to justice !) is an image that many find difficult.

Having said that, I suspect (and I hope I'm proven wrong) that there won't be as "many" in the USA, and (to return to Mandy's closing statement) the only bet I'll be placing is that there will be a lot of "capital" made of this from the Obama campaign.

[marthe]

Morning marthe

Yes, the Republicans are terrifying. For all his faults Obama has brought much-needed coherence and dignity to the White House. Which is why I'm so surprised that just about every American I've met in the past few years loathes him.

As you seem to be a leftie, marthe, does that make you a Rhode Island Red? :)

Morning Mahlerei, RI Red good one that! I'm perhaps a RI liberal to moderate, and registered Democrat which is not hard because most RI voters are Dems. Our governor, Lincoln Chaffee, is a former moderate Republican who is now an Independent. His father, former Governor John Chaffee was a Republican of the old school and very different from the Rabid Reps who are now jockeying for position. At least the Lady from Alaska who can see Russia from her Backyard is not running for president. I wouldn't count her out for the next time (2015-2016). That would be scary! I will support Obama for a second term. I think that the issue of race still lurks under the surface and may be a reason why some people loathe Obama. Also, tampering with the healthcare system has made him as many enemies as friends.

Greenilex, where does your American family live?

S-A, who was the last non-naff US president in your opinion?

[Mandryka]

A man called 'Milt' Romney is talked of as the likeliest Republican candidate - though without much enthusiasm among Reps, because he lacks Tea Party credentials and the salt of the earth mentality (and why are the Republicans going in for demotics in such a big way this year? Is it because all this faux folksiness goes down well with the voters?) To be blunt, they don't think he's right wing enough, which will almost certainly mean he'll have to deviate to the Right when in office, just to appease any potential critics.

I don't think the Republicans have had a truly impressive candidate since Nixon (who still seems to be villified for the wrong things - getting caught out over Watergate seems to cause him more obloquy than the bombing of Cambodia); in fact, in 1972, you pretty much HAD to vote for Nixon, because the McGovern campaign had only the most tenuous basis in reality - AND because RMN himself had a pretty strong record in foreign policy and had done some things at home that even liberals could sign up to.

[marthe]

Mitt Romney (Willard Mitt Romney) is a moderate Republican, son of George W. Romney, former governor of Michigan and CEO of American Motor Corporation (AMC). The elder Romney was a Republican candidate during the 1968 presidential race but was beat out by Nixon as the party's choice. Mitt Romney was governor of Massachusetts a few years ago and is known best for introducing mandatory health insurance for all Massachusetts residents. He was also chairman of the US Olympic Committee for the Winter Games in Salt Lake City. Romney's big problem is the fact that he is a Mormon which is similar to the problem of religion that faced JFK, as a Roman Catholic, during the 1960 presidential campaign.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

having travelled in the USA several times in the last decade or so two observations ... it is a foreign [very] country with differences that are profound from the UK .... [and having seen the UK from abroad quite a few times it ill behoves us to call any foreign politician naff ... dangerous certainly, but not naff .....] and second this is the Primaries season, not the election and the incumbent wisely perhaps is keeping his powder dry until he knows what he is facing .... the Republican Candidates are competing for Republican votes ... not the national vote .... we should be impressed by the interest this generates.... there were a whole series of debates when the Labour leadership contest was on and i can scarce recall any detailed or informative coverage or televised debates at all ... it was a yawn ..[and lined up they were as impressive as the field in the R Primaries?]