Is economic growth necessarily the same as "real" growth?

[PhilipT]

On MPs' pensions, George Galloway was explaining that he was an MP for 23 years and that he is entitled to 23 fiftieths rather than the usual eightieths of his final salary in pension. In other words nearly half of his £60,000 plus salary which will mean over £30,000 pa. He doesn't think it right that he should enjoy this privilege. If he is entitled to it, so, he says, should everyone else be.

Where do you get the 'usual eightieths' from? 'Sixtieths' are more usual. (The NHS (1995) scheme is quoted as 'eightieths', but there's a tax-free lump sum on top that makes it the equivalent of sixtieths.) Some private sector schemes used to be better than what the MPs get now. E.g. the IBM scheme: accrual rate of 2.2%, i.e. better than forty-sixths, 4% employee contribution (George Galloway's fiftieths would cost him 7.9% at current rates), retirement at 63 (not 65). No - that wasn't for executives, it was for ordinary permanent staff.

[Lateralthinking1]

As an ex ordinary Civil Servant - slightly lower than the national average salary - I will get 25 eightieths.

[ahinton]

As an ex ordinary Civil Servant - slightly lower than the national average salary - I will get 25 eightieths.

As a self-employed composer, I'll get no eightieths of anything at all; MCPS/PRS tends not to calculate performance, broadcast and recording royalty payments in eightieths or indeed any other fractions.

[Lateralthinking1]

I was responding to PhilipT's point about eightieths.

Still, your post was useful in one respect. Genuinely, I had convinced myself that you were the historian David Starkey.

[Serial_Apologist]

I was responding to PhilipT's point about eightieths.

Still, your post was useful in one respect. Genuinely, I had convinced myself that you were the historian David Starkey.

http://www.sorabji-archive.co.uk/hinton/biography.php

There's a better site but my keyboard doesn't do the wavy symbol. Every little bit helps...

[Lateralthinking1]

Thank you - impressive stuff.

[ahinton]

I was responding to PhilipT's point about eightieths.

Still, your post was useful in one respect. Genuinely, I had convinced myself that you were the historian David Starkey.

For what possible reason could or would you have done that? I'm quite sure that if he were a member here he'd have made his presence not only felt but known by using his own name in some recognisable format just as I have indeed done myself, so did you think "ahinton" to be a made-up name? How very curious!

Philip T's point and your response thereto are in no way undermined by mine, but it's perhaps worth noting nevertheless that not all of have pension plans calculated on fractions of this kind.

[Lateralthinking1]

"A hint on"......your real name.

Oh well, never mind.

[ahinton]

"A hint on"......your real name.

Oh well, never mind.

Oh, yes, sehr droll, I'm sure - and no, I don't mind one bit. I'm not a star, nor do I pretend to have the key to being one - and I'm certainly no kind of Dave.

Anyway isn't eightieth where people with lisps go for tyre changes?

[Lateralthinking1]

Actually, its derivation is canine. Originally spelt "eye-teeth" as in "I wouldn't give my eye teeth for it".

The difficult word is "sixth". All newsreaders and 100% of people aged under 40 pronounce it "sick-th" rather than "six-sth". Expert consultants have come up with two possible reasons - 1. Insufficent exposure at a young age to the work of Freddie Parrot-Face Davies and 2. It just reflects the fact that we all now live in a sick thociety.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07lPjhAMk50

[teamsaint]

been out all day getting products in the shops in time for the next recession.. pretty disappointed by the overall level of internet shoutiness today, on this thread !! C,mon team, as my boss says. (well said once, anyway).
anyway, teachers get 1/80th, plus the lump sum philipt was so keen to add in.

This means that after 40 years, (more than double the average sentence served for murder,) a teacher will get half salary. Its a decent pension, but after 40 years in the classroom, pretty well deserved.)

[Lateralthinking1]

Oh yes. Teaching.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/8943765/Exam-boards-investigation-Theres-so-little-content-we-dont-know-how-we-got-it-through.html

Let the exam commence:

You are a decent teacher who believes in high standards and fair play. Your school is keen to ensure that it does well in the league table. You are advised by the Head that members of the examination board will give you tips on corner cutting. This should help improve the school's results. Many teachers have already paid to attend it, placing them in an advantageous position. Instinctively you feel that the process isn't fair, or indeed moral, but are concerned about the consequences of not attending.

Do you:

a. Pay through the nose, feeling that the procedure is a combination of criminality and daylight robbery, then attend to ensure that you benefit, but ask some really awkward questions to show that you find it all utterly objectionable

b. Don't pay but storm into the room on the day of the event shouting "you're just a bunch of barrow boys - chuck us a banana", then leave the school at approximately the same time as your court case commences

c. Decide that you won't attend and just keep your head down, not mentioning that you did in fact write a letter of complaint to Michael Gove but never had the courtesy of a reply, only to find then that your pupils perform catastrophically?

This is a multiple choice question but please use as much paper as you wish to write your answer. Do bear in mind though that infants in Spain's schools are now having toilet paper rationed because, unlike bankers, they were becoming too greedy.

[Lateralthinking1]

.....I think the latest revelations help to confirm my earlier stated view that while employment is a lifeline it is not, as often presented, a symbol of moral force. In fact, sadly as our systems are currently structured, the requirements of a job tend to turn right minded people into modern day Delboys or far worse overnight.

Every worker is now on a market stall. The lower quality apples are stuck under the brightest lights. A little bit of law breaking, a little bit of cheating and a little bit of an eleven year old's thinking. If it were not for the fundamental need to have a job, most folk would have happily left the latter, at least, behind.

Well, it would probably be just about worth it for efficiency. Get off the high horse, watch the pupils achieve in high numbers, and then after their degrees turn the country into an economic powerhouse.

But regrettably, we have pandemonium. Each generation has different results. Good results look poor. Poor ones look good. They cannot be contrasted and compared in any meaningful way by employers. And there aren't any jobs for people to go into anyway. A stars all round then in lose-lose yet again with particularly stunning results for downright shiftiness.

Next stop - Health? "Yeah, you need to improve your hospital's performance but I will be a bit naughty here - others aren't going through all of that time-wasting sterilizing of medical equipment - just don't tell anyone I told you though, alright mate?)

[Serial_Apologist]

.....I think the latest revelations help to confirm my earlier stated view that while employment is a lifeline it is not, as often presented, a symbol of moral force. In fact, sadly as our systems are currently structured, the requirements of a job tend to turn right minded people into modern day Delboys or far worse overnight.

Every worker is now on a market stall. The lower quality apples are stuck under the brightest lights. A little bit of law breaking, a little bit of cheating and a little bit of an eleven year old's thinking. If it were not for the fundamental need to have a job, most folk would have happily left the latter, at least, behind.

Well, it would probably be just about worth it for efficiency. Get off the high horse, watch the pupils achieve in high numbers, and then after their degrees turn the country into an economic powerhouse.

But regrettably, we have pandemonium. Each generation has different results. Good results look poor. Poor ones look good. They cannot be contrasted and compared in any meaningful way by employers. And there aren't any jobs for people to go into anyway. A stars all round then in lose-lose yet again with particularly stunning results for downright shiftiness.

Next stop - Health? "Yeah, you need to improve your hospital's performance but I will be a bit naughty here - others aren't going through all of that time-wasting sterilizing of medical equipment - just don't tell anyone I told you though, alright mate?)

Well said, Lat