What's it all about, then? - J Cage

[MrGongGong]

BINGO
Surely the whole ENC thing is the Godwin's Law of discussions about music from the last 100 years. ?

[Mr Pee]

BINGO
Surely the whole ENC thing is the Godwin's Law of discussions about music from the last 100 years. ?

But we're not discussing music, are we? We're discussing 4:33.

[Chris Newman]

But we're not discussing music, are we? We're discussing 4:33.

Sir, you're making a scene.

[John Skelton]

But we're not discussing music, are we? We're discussing 4:33.

You think it's nonsense, you've made your point - so are you actually now doing anything other than goading, Mr Pee? I think an interesting conversation could (could) be had about what constitutes a 'work' (for instance, Machaut's extraordinary Messe de Nostre Dame clearly isn't a 'work' in the sense that an Elgar symphony is, though concert and CD presentations of the music / text perhaps shift it towards a 'work' in a way that it never was in its time). But you'd call anyone who took that conversation seriously a "pseud", wouldn't you?

I remember from the old BBC boards, how you couldn't keep away from a thread about Stockhausen's music. Which, of course, you knew wasn't music at all. Telling your jokes . I doubt that sort of campaign of disruption would be much appreciated by you in the context of something you think valuable. But, of course, because you think it valuable there would be no reason to sneer at it, would there?

You are really a bit of a bully, Mr Pee.

[Mr Pee]

Why am I a bully? I do not think that 4:33 is music, because there is nothing musical about it- no notation, no form, no structure; none of the things that are generally considered to be key elements of musical composition. I am sorry if my Pseuds Corner reference ruffled a few feathers, but the thought did cross my mind on reading some of the more fanciful attempts to defend 4:33 that they would indeed sit very nicely there.

I have no wish to offend, never mind bully; if you wish to look for a poster who often deliberately insults others, then I suggest Mr GG would be a better target for you. (See examples above.) He routinely resorts to abuse and insults directed at those with whom he disagrees.

[amateur51]

Sir, you're making a scene.

Shame it went straight over the top of Mr Pee's head, Chris Newman

[Serial_Apologist]

Why am I a bully?

I've really no idea: no doubt a psychologist could explain why to you...

Feel free to post my earlier message to Pseuds Corner, by the way,

For somebody who complains about falling standards, you really are an ignorant, little man.

[amateur51]

Why am I a bully?

Such a heartfelt plea!

It's never too late to take up some form of therapy, Mr Pee

Edit: cross-post, sorry S_A!

[MrGongGong]

Please miss a big boy did it and ran away !
Pathetic

4:33" has form ,notation ( hummm Kind Of Blue wasn't notated so I guess that's not music either ?)
And as much structure as Bolero

You, sir,conflate your own taste with whether it's music or not
I'm not particularly fond of Dickens BUT Bleak House is a (probably great ?) work of literature

[barber olly]

And as much structure as Bolero

I don't like Bolero either. Actually Bolero makes 4'33" sound good!

[Mr Pee]

For somebody who complains about falling standards, you really are an ignorant, little man.

Pathetic

The level of personal insults being hurled about by certain posters here, purely because their beloved 4:33 is being traduced, is really quite disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Such a heartfelt plea!

It's never too late to take up some form of therapy, Mr Pee

And amateur- do you have any views on 4:33? You have been asked, and have failed to come up with any sort of response. Or are you just here to join your chums in the playground?

4:33" has form ,notation ( hummm Kind Of Blue wasn't notated so I guess that's not music either ?)
And as much structure as Bolero

What form? What notation?

Many years ago, I glanced at a copy of 4:33 ( the Peters edition, I seem to recall), and there was no notation. "Tacet for 4:33" is not notation. And as for form and structure- please Mr GG, try and explain- without resorting to personal insults - where the form and structure lie in 4 minutes 33 seconds of silence.

Bolero has a theme, modulation, different instrumental treatments of the theme, and a brief coda. That's way more structure than 4:33.

[Bryn]

Obviously too many long words for you.
Have you actually bothered to READ what it says ? and applied your brain (??????????) to understanding a bit ??

You ask to much, I fear, MrGG.

[Mr Pee]

You ask to much, I fear, MrGG.

Pathetic.

[Bryn]

Pathetic.

Oh do move away from the mirror, Pee.

[Mr Pee]

Oh do move away from the mirror, Pee.

It is a very poor reflection- see what I did there?- on you that you are no longer capable of any sort of reasoned discussion and have instead resorted to insult and abuse. I am saddened and depressed that supposedly intelligent individuals have resorted to the behaviour of the playground.

In an attempt to get things back on track, read this, and then see if you can respond to it in a more mature manner.

http://freemusicarticles.com/john-cages-433-is-not-music/