I agree that frenchie's post was "spot on" and I hope that I've voiced my frustration with the direction R3 has taken with sufficient frequency elsewhere. But I think Jimbo's claim that R3 is a "pale reflection of Classic FM" spoiled a post with which otherwise I had great fellow feeling.
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I think though that CFM knows what it is and who it's for - and that is its strength. Radio 3 knows neither. It has adopted a kind of 'something for everyone' which (my view) too often misses the mark for most people. It's hard to retain one's loyalty for a station which has a good programme now and again, or perhaps a good strand like CotW. But CotW is a 'music documentary' - a speech based programme, very good of its sort. If you want to sit back for some interesting well presented listening during the daytime you're more likely than not to be disappointed.Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View PostIt isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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I agree that it was too sweeping. However, it could now, sadly, be said of Breakfast and to a certain extent, Essential Classics.Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
As ff has said, CFM at least knows what it is doing and does it well within its own limited parameters. R3, in the mornings, is rather like the older generation trying to jive with the teenagers at the wedding reception disco - just too embarrassing to watch (or in this case listen).Comment
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to both Don and Frenchie.
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Other interesting sites to compare with R3
I should be interested in seeing links to some European stations that fill the gap vacated by R3.Originally posted by Lateralthinking1 View PostComment
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e.g. BR KlassikComment
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Yes, good point. Here is Polskie Radio Dwojka - http://www.polskieradio.pl/8,DwojkaOriginally posted by EricB View Post
Lateral has been hitting Wikipedia again and finding some surprising information. The following in no way excuses RW but it places him in a historical context. Fings were perhaps never as they used to be.
- In 1946, the Third Programme broadcast for six hours each evening. Output was cut to 24 hours a week from 1957, with the early part of weekday evenings being given over to educational programming. This situation continued until the launch, in 1965, of the BBC Music Programme, which began regular daily broadcasts of classical music with some interruptions for live sports coverage. The Third Programme itself continued as a distinct evening service, and this continued to be the case for a short while after the inception of Radio 3 in 1967 until all the elements of the BBC's "third network" were finally absorbed into Radio 3 in April 1970.
- The Third's existence was controversial from the start, because of perceived "elitism" and for the costs of output relative to a small listener reach. Even Reith was against segmenting audiences by splitting programming genres across different networks. It had though prominent supporters: the Education Secretary in the Attlee government, Ellen Wilkinson, spoke optimistically of creating a "third programme nation". I find this interesting. I first heard of this good lady while campaigning for the SDP in 1983 on a council estate in York. One of the elderly tenants spoke about her in glowing terms so she might just have had a point.
- In 1969, the BBC published "Broadcasting in the Seventies", described by Jenny Abramsky as "the most controversial document ever produced by radio". Prompted by rising costs, one early option under consideration was the reduction of the four radio networks to three, and "Day-time serious music would be the casualty". Radios 1, 2 and 4 would broadcast during the day time, while in the evening Radios 1 and 2 would merge and Radio 3 would broadcast on the vacated frequency. Rumours circulated that Radio 3 would be abolished, with The Guardian stating that there was a strong "statistical case" against the station.
- In 1971, Stephen Hearst was asked in interview how important listening figures were. He replied that the station was financed by public money. There was a minimum viable figure but this could be increased with "a lively style of broadcasting". Another candidate, Martin Esslin replied that the great cultural importance of Radio 3 made listening figures irrelevant. Hearst got the job. Among early innovations were a drivetime programme, Homeward Bound, which featured light classical music, dismissed by the critic Bayan Northcott as "muzak of the speeding executive"; and a Sunday phone-in request programme, Your Concert Choice.
- In 1980 Homeward Bound was replaced by Mainly for Pleasure. One critic complained that every programme, instead of provoking thought, was merely "thought-killing background". Financial cuts hit Radio 3 hard in that year and an internal paper recommended the disbandment of several BBC orchestras. Concern was expressed that Radio 3 had lost prestige without gaining new listeners. In 1983 The Times outlined the unhappinesses of producers, contributors and listeners. Meanwhile, senior management was dissatisfied with the figures and Director-General Alasdair Milne said the presentation was "too stodgy and old-fashioned".
- In 1987, John Drummond took over. Drummond felt that the presentation of music programmes was too stiff and spoke of its "dogged dullness". He set about encouraging announcers to be more natural and enthusiastic. New programmes introduced by Drummond included the experimental music show Mixing It (1990) which he described as a late-evening music strand for genres which fell between Radio 1 and Radio 3: "ethnic music, minimalism, and some kinds of experimental or advanced rock".Last edited by Guest; 26-01-12, 14:35.Comment
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I sent the following email to the producer of the Radio 3 Breakfast programme this morning:
Stop it! Please! I can't bear it any longer. If I want to hear presenters burbling inanely about Easter bunnies and garden sheds, or extracts from randomly selected symphonies and concertos ripped out of context, I can tune in to Classic FM. At least their presenters don't address their listeners in the patronising tones of a Sunday School teacher trying to engage the interest of a class of five-year-olds.
If I want to know the news headlines, I can wait another ten minutes until the top of the hour. If I want to know which newspaper is showing a front-page photograph of the Duchess of Cambridge in a new outfit, I will go to my local newsagent.
If you want to know what an engaging and distinctive breakfast programme might sound like, hunt in the BBC archives for examples of the excellent 'Sacred and Profane' Sunday morning series of programmes, which were thoughtfully crafted, with one carefully chosen item linked meaningfully into the next, and a presenter who cared enough about the music to offer a few perceptive comments on each piece (for example, 'listen out for the muted entry of the cello at the start of the second movement'). It was programmes like that which taught me everything I know about classical music - without ever insulting my intelligence.
Catherine R.Comment
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Hello, Catherine - and welcome!
You've chosen the right thread for your first post ... (or rather, one of the right threads as there are a number in similar vein).It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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Do let us know the response you get Catherine; although, sadly, I think we can predict the inanities they will come up with, even if they deign to respond.Originally posted by Catherine R View PostComment
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Radio Three not dying but dead...
It died this morning when the egregious Sara Mohr-Pietsch started talking about garden sheds. I have endured as much as I can of 'Breakfast' but enough is enough.Originally posted by EdgeleyRob View PostComment
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Cracking first post Catherine, welcome!!! Couldn't agree more!Originally posted by Catherine R View Post
"...the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."
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i beg to remind boredees that this is also damaging beyond the listening experience .... there was some years back a sense of a coherent audience around jazz programming and the old MB's ... with the abolition of the boreds and the rescheduling and cuts in jazz programming the coherence and possibility of it has been seriously damaged ... it would be my impression that a similar erosion is taking place in the classical field... the lack of a coherent community of listeners is damaging both to the music itself and our society ... it seems that this was well understood at the BBC in days of yore ... but they are totally deaf and duck's back when it comes to reminders ...
they work to a pepsi cola target of quarterly numbers now and fail even at that ...According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.Comment
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Agreed! Good to read a well-constructed coherent post, but sad to be reminded of how it's all gone horribly wrong.Originally posted by Caliban View PostCracking first post Catherine, welcome!!! Couldn't agree more!
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Catherine .. Newsnight covered this subject in detail a couple of years ago. Er, sort of.
Here are some excerpts from the archives:
Penny Gore speaks out:
Rob Cowan Replies:
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