An unlapsed catholic, i???

[Stillhomewardbound]

I am concerned about my behaviour in recent weeks.

I was brought up as a catholic and was a regular attender at mass, however once I went away to university I left all that behind.

My only church attendance since then would have been keeping my mum company at Christmas time and the like.

I do not consider myself as having a faith and would describe myself as agnostic.

So, why have I taken to going to mass again? I've been about seven out of the last nine Sundays.

I think it has something to do with the fact that both my parents are gone now, almost as if I am seeking some solace and comfort from a church service; and I have to say that I do find it in hearing the words and the mantra I grew up with.

Is it a condition of being a middle-aged orphan? Our parents were much more dependent on us in our later years, but still one had always counted on them being there.

Perhaps, its not a source of concern at all. The concentration of a service, the smells, the bells, the hyms. They can provide quite a heady balm, but then, I do find myself listening to the lessons and the gospel, the homily even, and pondering their meaning.

Am I submitting to some delusional vortex and what if I start to find myself believing the mumbo jumbo all over again.

Your thoughts and prayers ... Oh crumms, do you see what I mean?!

Your thoughts would be welcome.

SHB

[DracoM]

It might also be interesting to know how many ex-catholics are ex- precisely because of JP 23, and / or Herr Ratzinger, and how many exes said gentlemen brought back into the fold?

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, when not listening to music, I tend to find my spiritual solace in walking through the woods which we are so blessed with in this district of S London (Dulwich). This has always been the case, my having left home at 19 and never having felt any closeness with either of my parents. Our school services would probably have been pretty High Church by Anglican standards, possibly in a RC context today, where "happy-clappy" hymns are now as pervasive as in Pentecostal churches - sumptuous robes on certain occasions; lots of "Kyries"; much self-crossing by the clergy; use of plainsong in the Responses; "Adeste Fidelis" in place of "O Come All Ye Faithful" at the Christmas Eucharist, if no incense; etc. etc. I was in the Chapel choir. But, never having been a Catholic, though having attended a few RC services, I can agree that the heady rituals - or what remains of them - do lend that sense of immediacy that could I suppose be conducive to thought-eclipsing "participation mystique".

Think of it as to do with Mind, and that Buddhist term "Mindfulness", rather than anything supernatural, would be my advice, as one ex-believer to another.

Best wishes

S-A

PS - Speaking of another avowed non-believer, Sir Peter Maxwell Davies, I never did get his point about "betrayal" - the word he used to prefix his "parody mass", "L'Homme Arme", in connection to the Church's abandonment of the Latin Mass.

[Pianorak]

You are not alone in this: http://www.agreeley.com/articles/why.html

Perhaps read Angus Wilson's The Wrong Set: . . . Once a Catholic always a Catholic.

[Stillhomewardbound]

Thank you very much for that link, Pianorak. It was most useful because so little of it struck a chord with me.

Even as a child, I knew not to inhale too deeply in being taught stories from the bible, so I can see that I still have both feet on the ground.

Perhaps, I am at a church principally for the balm, and in that spirit my churches are chosen carefully. Usually Westminster Cathedral where one avoids clap-happy evangelism.

Maybe, my return to the fold will be on a short-term basis, but if it makes me feel a little closer to my late mother and father perhaps that is no bad thing.

[Mandryka]

I am concerned about my behaviour in recent weeks.

I was brought up as a catholic and was a regular attender at mass, however once I went away to university I left all that behind.

My only church attendance since then would have been keeping my mum company at Christmas time and the like.

I do not consider myself as having a faith and would describe myself as agnostic.

So, why have I taken to going to mass again? I've been about seven out of the last nine Sundays.

I think it has something to do with the fact that both my parents are gone now, almost as if I am seeking some solace and comfort from a church service; and I have to say that I do find it in hearing the words and the mantra I grew up with.

Is it a condition of being a middle-aged orphan? Our parents were much more dependent on us in our later years, but still one had always counted on them being there.

Perhaps, its not a source of concern at all. The concentration of a service, the smells, the bells, the hyms. They can provide quite a heady balm, but then, I do find myself listening to the lessons and the gospel, the homily even, and pondering their meaning.

Am I submitting to some delusional vortex and what if I start to find myself believing the mumbo jumbo all over again.

Your thoughts and prayers ... Oh crumms, do you see what I mean?!

Your thoughts would be welcome.

SHB

I think your self-analysis is spot-on, SHB. There's nothing wrong with finding the service/ritual comforting, even if you no longer believe in the essence of it. And if it keeps you close to your parents, all the better.

I lack personal religiosity, like most of the people in my family: my grandfather was a militant anti-Catholic (in word, but not in deed) who took me to the Orange Day parade in Liverpool when I was only 3. However, I've come to realise that the Catholic faith, like many others, offers great solace to those who hold to it.

Personally, I think it's a bit of a low blow to bring the Pope into this: Like most of his predecessors, Pope Benedict is doing a good job: he may be a conservative, but a Pope has no leeway to be anything else, when you think about it. And his membership of the Hitler Youth should not be allowed to count against him, as I daresay he didn't have much of a say in the matter.

[Stillhomewardbound]

* DracoM, you mentioned 'JP 23'. Were you alluding to Pope John XXIII and the Second Vatican Council?

My father very quickly shedded the mass going habit and so it fell to my mother to get us all to church on time.

Catholicism, anyhow, by the Irish model has always been a very habitual affair. Much of the to-do about the dropping the latin mass was that people were being asked to actually understand what it was they were saying each week.

My only time at a latin mass was at the funeral for an aunt celebrated by her brother-in-law (my mother's bother) who was an archbishop. As a young seminarian he was singled out for despatch to Rome and a career as a papal nuncio.

For authenticity he maintained the latin was best rendered with a hint of an italian accent.

[amateur51]

Personally, I think it's a bit of a low blow to bring the Pope into this: Like most of his predecessors, Pope Benedict is doing a good job: he may be a conservative, but a Pope has no leeway to be anything else, when you think about it. And his membership of the Hitler Youth should not be allowed to count against him, as I daresay he didn't have much of a say in the matter.

A typical Mandryka provocation but I shall not be provoked (I hope french frank & scotty are watching ).

[Nick Armstrong]

Personally, I think it's a bit of a low blow to bring the Pope into this

Hang on. I'm not a "bride of Rome" or whatever the phrase is, but how is it a "low blow" to bring the Pope in to a discussion about Catholicism?

Isn't he rather... central ??

[amateur51]

Hang on. I'm not a "bride of Rome" or whatever the phrase is, but how is it a "low blow" to bring the Pope in to a discussion about Catholicism?

Isn't he rather... central ??

Kinda!

[greenilex]

The way I know I am still affected by all of that is precisely that I don't go to services... and would feel "wrong" and slightly sinful to be taking part in something I no longer believe in.

I can see that much of Xtianity is true on a non-literal level, but there are some quite harmful elements, especially for women. Patriarchal religions are not a good model from our point of view.

[handsomefortune]

seconded greenilex.

[Mandryka]

Hang on. I'm not a "bride of Rome" or whatever the phrase is, but how is it a "low blow" to bring the Pope in to a discussion about Catholicism?

Isn't he rather... central ??

I'm at a loss as to why my comment has caused controversy....surely, it doesn't take any profound knowledge of the Vatican/Catholicism in general, to realise that ANY Pope has to take up a conservative position on certain issues (abortion being only the most obvious one) in order to satisfy/placate his wordlwide congregation?

If I were a Catholic (which I emphatically am not), I could argue that the its unchanging nature is one of the central strengths of the Catholic 'brand'.

Before Cardinal Ratzinger's promotion, several know-nothing members of the chattering classes were, apparently, hoping for an African (or, at least, a 'black') Pope. If they'd done any research at all, they'd have realised that African cardinals tend to be the most conservative of all.....most of them make Ratzinger look like a pussy liberal.

[Anna]

Basically, when you go to a High Church service (I'm not saying Catholic on purpose because many High Anglican are higher than a local RC service) it is a beautifully staged piece of theatre. All in costume, sanctus bells, thurible, altar boys, servants of the sanctuary, fantastic music. It's all absolutely terribly wonderful and you just want to be part of this spectacle, be drawn in to the flamboyance and if you are seeking reassurance then it does seems that this is the one truth faith because it's so emotional and gripping.

[scottycelt]

A typical Mandryka provocation but I shall not be provoked (I hope french frank & scotty are watching ).

I do pop in from time to time to see how you are behaving, amateur ...

The great attraction of Catholicism for myself (and presumably millions of others) is its total consistency and it's almost unique refusal to bow to the whims of secular fashion, however tempting and more socially comfortable for its members that would almost certainly be.

Feminism? Gay Rights? ... oh, those will rock the Church all right but it will remain steadfast and carry on just as before, because, as Mandryka so rightly says, it does so simply because it has to. That is its very mission.

I also love its total classlessness. The rubbish collector is just as worthy in the eyes of the Church as the priest on the pulpit or indeed the Pope himself. Oh, because it consists of human beings it has undoubtedly many faults (obsessively documented by it's most vociferous opponents) but its basic teaching always remains the same ... and, hey, unlike secular society, the rules apply to everybody!

Lastly, I rather like the idea of men and women performing different roles. Every even half-intelligent man or woman knows the sexes are different and can contribute in separate ways. It's only modern secular liberalism (like Communism) that has brainwashed society to believe that both must be treated alike. The Protestant churches have largely capitulated with predictable results.

For all its human failings, the Catholic Church remains a rock of reason and stability surrounded by a vast swirling ocean of secular chaos and disintegration.

In short, it has (and always has had) quite a lot going for it ...