BBC ORCHESTRAS: Who will be the first to go?

[Anna]

From RW's blog "The volume of output broadcast from the Ulster Orchestra will be reduced"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/2011/10/controller-roger-wright-on-the.shtml

[french frank]

From RW's blog "The volume of output broadcast from the Ulster Orchestra will be reduced"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/20...t-on-the.shtml

Brazening it out as usual! 'Disappointingly small number of responses' - was that his gloss, I wonder? In fact, how many responses would they have expected about Radio 3?

[EnemyoftheStoat]

That certainly seems a reasonable line to take with the BBCSO; with two orchestras 'resident' at the RFH, the LSO at The Barbican & the RPO London based. That's not to say I want to see the BBC close any of its orchestras or musicians lose their jobs.

Erm, why does "that which performs the fewest new commission and music of the latter half ot the 20th Century and start of the 21st" sound like the BBCSO? Has anyone done any actual analysis?

[Nick Armstrong]

From RW's blog "The volume of output broadcast from the Ulster Orchestra will be reduced"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/20...t-on-the.shtml

Oh Anna, I just saw this blawwwwg and started a thread about it...

[John Skelton]

Erm, why does "that which performs the fewest new commission and music of the latter half ot the 20th Century and start of the 21st" sound like the BBCSO? Has anyone done any actual analysis?

Sorry - I was unclear. I didn't mean to say that was true of the BBCSO (though I'd argue that the orchestra's involvement in contemporary music isn't of the level or quality it was in the 1970s & 1980s) - I meant to say that if it was (or became) true of the BBCSO then it might be difficult to justify a London based BBC Orchestra which predominantly covered the same territory as the other London orchestras. Whereas outside London the situation would be different, or the argument about public service distinctiveness would be different.

[gurnemanz]

Watch News Night on BBC2 TV. Or David Attenborough's Nature programmes from BBC Bristol - or many other programmes which are enhanced by the splendid background music.

And who is playing the music? The BBC Concert Orchestra!

They are arguably the most versatile orchestra in the country, able to play anything from symphonic music to pop shows, with equal expertise and panache.

They should be the last orchestra to go. (and they don't have double principal players in all departments, not forgetting more than one Leader changing, it appears, almost daily, like the BBC Symphony Orchestra**).

**Cerrtainly the most expensive orchestra by far and in my opinion, no better than the other BBC house orchestras.

But we must fight to keep them all, notwithstanding the fact that certain wasteful expenditure could and should be eliminated.

Ventilhorn

They were in very good form when we heard them a couple of weeks ago in Weill's Street Scene at the Young Vic. The production went on to the Theater an der Wien in Vienna.

[french frank]

They were in very good form when we heard them a couple of weeks ago in Weill's Street Scene at the Young Vic. The production went on to the Theater an der Wien in Vienna.

And indeed with the BBCNOW were chosen to perform Brian's Gothic at the Proms. Nothing if not versatile!

[teamsaint]

I believe that we should be concerned not with dismantling orchestras but with cutting out wastage.

For instance:

1) As I mentioned in a previous post: Co-Principals who only play half of the concerts and go off to swell their already more than generous pensionable salaries with outside work (keeping other worthy musicians unemployed)

2) The commisioning of "First Performances" (almost certainly will turn out to be the last) which require augmentation of numerous percussionists and other extras and are usually little more than ten minutes in duration.

3) The import of overseas orchestras, many of which are no better quality than the BBC House orchestras.

4) Guest conductors who demand massive fees, first class air travel and twice as much rehearsal time as our own resident conductors.

5) Guest presenters. There is a totally adequate selection of presenters under BBC contract. (qv) There is no need to import so-called experts to tell us what we just heard and how wonderful it was.

That's just a few examples of needless wastage. I hope the BBC will address those situations first, before handing out redundancy notices to loyal and hard-working Rank and File musicians.

Ventilhorn

Well someone who seems to know a bit about what is going on, what roughly do you think is the salary of a co principal in a BBC orchestra?

Your suggestions seem spot on.

[Ventilhorn]

From RW's blog "The volume of output broadcast from the Ulster Orchestra will be reduced"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/20...t-on-the.shtml

Does that mean from one per year to none per year?

VH

[Ventilhorn]

Sorry - I was unclear. I didn't mean to say that was true of the BBCSO (though I'd argue that the orchestra's involvement in contemporary music isn't of the level or quality it was in the 1970s & 1980s) - I meant to say that if it was (or became) true of the BBCSO then it might be difficult to justify a London based BBC Orchestra which predominantly covered the same territory as the other London orchestras. Whereas outside London the situation would be different, or the argument about public service distinctiveness would be different.

John. Your message #35 prompts me to repeat an extract about the BBCSO travelling outside London in the early 1950s from my memoires :

...The Hallé Orchestra's annual mileage was about the same as our own. They travelled throughout the
length and breadth of Lancashire, Cheshire and Yorkshire with a punishing schedule of concerts, as did all of the regional symphony orchestras.

The BBC's orchestras, by contrast, had a relatively easy life; doing nearly all of their work in the same studios, where they were even provided with their own lockers, so that they could leave their instruments overnight - and a lot of the string players did just that.

Imagine then the delight of that brilliant young oboist, the late Janet Craxton, when she left the Hallé Orchestra to become the Principal Oboe in the BBC Symphony Orchestra. For three months, all the rehearsals and broadcasts were in the Corporation's Maida Vale Studios; with just one or two live concerts in London's Royal Festival Hall.
Then, one day, a trip came up to play in Salisbury Cathedral.

The BBC believed in looking after its flagship orchestra and travel was arranged not by coach but by rail from Waterloo, with two carriages reserved solely for the orchestra.
On arrival at Salisbury, coaches conveyed them to the Red Lion Hotel for lunch and then on to the cathedral to rehearse. They were then conveyed back to the hotel for an evening meal and there were rooms specially reserved for them to change. After the concert, they were taken back to the railway station where two special carriages and a buffet car had been attached to the late night mail train to London.

Overwhelmed by this treatment, after her experiences of Hallé orchestra coaches lumbering across the Pennines through fog and snow, Janet turned to one of the old sweat violinists who'd been in the orchestra almost since its inception.

“I think this is marvellous.” she said.

“Yes,” came the reply. “But the travelling's killing this job.”

I doubt if the reaction from the BBCSO players would be that much different today!

VH

[jonfan]

The only orchestra not to have new facilities is the BBCSO. I'm not sure what Maida Vale is like now but it must be showing signs of strain keeping up with the state of the art recording facilities. The work of the BBCSO is duplicated by the many other symphony orchestras in the capital so if one BBC group was to go then that that is the obvious choice. The Concert Orchestra, Big Band and Singers are unique in what they offer so ought to be safe.

[DracoM]

Their standard of playing / conductors alone would lead one to question their continued existence, plus all you say about duplication. And the other ensemble the BBC should disband is the BBC Singers whose day is long, long past, and whose style is way out of date.

[Ariosto]

Their standard of playing / conductors alone would lead one to question their continued existence, plus all you say about duplication. And the other ensemble the BBC should disband is the BBC Singers whose day is long, long past, and whose style is way out of date.

It would be a bit stupid and short-sighted to disband the only group of professional singers the BBC employs.

But then we have so many pessimists on this board, so I suppose that such talk is only to be expected.

[BBMmk2]

BBC R3, the other CFM!

Be as it may re the BBCSO, it's the principal BBC orchestra? But hearing some and being at a couple of concerts they played, the regional orchestra far outweigh the central BBCSO. Despite a very good Britten and Brian performance. (Considering the conductor was at short noticed asked to appear).