BBC ORCHESTRAS: Who will be the first to go?

[Guest]

Alarming, but not unexpected news from the BBC today

No channels to be cut, but there will be mostly repeats on BBC2 TV and They will also be looking at the BBC Orchestras.

Let us not wait for it to happen. We must make our views known now and drum up as much support as we can ─ by word of mouth, through our MPs and with signed petitions. The move to Salford, to which I drew attention recently, must be taken as a serious warning that swingeing cuts can be expected in all but the BBC news output, which is an ever present waste bucket; using four or five outside reporters (plus camera crew) when the job could usually be done by one person, standing in front of a backdrop of the location.

Am I being alarmist? Don't wait to find out too late that it is going to happen.

Ventilhorn.

[french frank]

Am I being alarmist? Don't wait to find out too late that it is going to happen.

A fascinating point. With the BBC Phil, NOW and BBCSSO doing so well lately it's quite difficult to see where the axe could fall. From a musical, cultural point of view that is. From the beancounters point of view, w-e-e-ell, even that might prove a bit of a problem. The Singers? They have their critics but for sheer versatility they are hard to beat.

[BBMmk2]

Isn't the Ulster Orchestra part of the BBC?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The BBC Concert Orchestra might be an easier target.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

BBM,

In fact no, though there is a "broadcast agreement between the BBC and the Ulster Orchestra Society"
(see http://www.ulsterorchestra.com/about...-BBC-years.php )

The BBC orchestras are the BBCSO, BBCNOW, BBCPO, BBCSSO and the BBCCO; BBC Singers are the professional (chamber) choir, while the unpaid BBC Symphony Chorus and National Chorus of Wales fall under the management of their respective orchestras.

[french frank]

The BBC Concert Orchestra might be an easier target.

Possibly, but it gains Brownie points because it presents classical music on Radio 2, performs at Proms in the Park and generally is involved with the more so-called 'accessible' concerts. Would the BBCSSO take over Friday Night Is Music Night?

[Chris Newman]

The BBC Concert Orchestra might be an easier target.

The BBCCO also works a near eight day week. It is often the choice when a singer like Tom Jones or musical comedians like Bill Bailey do a show. It will often do a week or two with session men taking up the slack when they are not available for Friday Night is Music Night. They probably almost pay their way. As already stated the BBCSO, BBC Phil and BBCNOW have reached international standards. Tragically, it could be quite bloody.

[RobertLeDiable]

Possibly, but it gains Brownie points because it presents classical music on Radio 2, performs at Proms in the Park and generally is involved with the more so-called 'accessible' concerts. Would the BBCSSO take over Friday Night Is Music Night?

Why would the BBC SSO take over Friday Night? Seems an odd idea. Why not any of the symphony orchestras? The Concert Orchestra doesn't do all that much for Radio 3 or Radio 2 and spends quite a lot of its time doing commercial work outside the BBC, so it seems the most likely candidate if any of the orchestras were to be floated off.

Maybe it could be like the Ulster Orchestra - essentially independent, but receiving a chunk of funding from the BBC in return for a certain number of programmes.

[french frank]

Why would the BBC SSO take over Friday Night? Seems an odd idea.

I know. The question was expecting the answer, No, I wouldn't think so. I meant, if the Concert Orchestra were axed, who would ... 'Floating it off' would be a possibility but there are already a lot of London-based orchestras.

[RobertLeDiable]

'Floating it off' would be a possibility but there are already a lot of London-based orchestras.

The Concert Orchestra already makes a good lot of its income commercially, I believe (don't know what proportion) and is obviously skilled in certain things like working with big name pop stars, jazz singers and so on. You would like to think it could compete pretty well if it had to do more away from the BBC. Maybe if it was guaranteed x number of Friday Nights that would provide the basis of a BBC arrangement.

[DracoM]

In terms of London, the BBCSO is the one which should go. There are big scale orchestras in the capital enow, and many better.

[teamsaint]

The Concert Orchestra already makes a good lot of its income commercially, I believe (don't know what proportion) and is obviously skilled in certain things like working with big name pop stars, jazz singers and so on. You would like to think it could compete pretty well if it had to do more away from the BBC. Maybe if it was guaranteed x number of Friday Nights that would provide the basis of a BBC arrangement.

perhaps they provide a commercial model for other BBC orchestras.

[Petrushka]

Those with long menories will recall 1980 when it was proposed to get rid of one of the BBC orchestras. The result was a Musicians Union strike that caused the cancellation of about a fortnight of that year's Proms. Each of the orchestras since that time has built heavily on regional support and identification with the community. Since 1980 the BBCPO, the BBCNOW and BBCSSO have dramatically improved. It will thus be very hard to disband one of them without causing an uproar that will be political as well as musically based. In terms of disbandment I would think that the BBCSO and BBCCO are highly vulnerable.

On the other hand, as has been mentioned, the BBC have an arrangement with the Ulster Orchestra which could serve as a template for similar arrengemants with the Scottish and Welsh orchestras. The BBCPO are probably safe and have a possible advantage in being in Manchester.

Despite being the mainstay of the Proms I do think that the BBCSO is the most vulnerable one of all. DracoM could be right.

[RobertLeDiable]

On the other hand, as has been mentioned, the BBC have an arrangement with the Ulster Orchestra which could serve as a template for similar arrengemants with the Scottish and Welsh orchestras. The BBCPO are probably safe and have a possible advantage in being in Manchester.

It's not a comparable situation. The Ulster Orchestra is the only fulltime orchestra in the province, so it has an arts council to give it the bulk of its finance, with the BBC contributing a smaller proportion. The BBC NOW is also partly supported by the Welsh arts council already (and used to get money form Channel 4C as well, though i don't know if that still applies). The BBC SSO, on the other hand receives no money from the arts council or the government in Scotland and since the Scottish government already supports the RSNO, SCO and Scottish Opera, they're not going to find money to replace BBC funding as well. Some would say that the BBC PO, with both the Halle and RLPO on its doorstep, more or less, is not necessarily that safe. And I believe some of its funding comes from Salford City Council, which must be extremely strapped for cash these days.

[Tevot]

An intriguing if dispiriting thread - especially given some superb performances by the BBC Orchestras at the recent Proms. I tend to agree with those that feel the BBC Phil is safe - especially given the BBC move to Salford. Indeed Manchester and the North West is blessed with fine orchestras. If we were to play the axe/ parlour game I must confess that the BBC Concert Orchestra almost instantaneously sprang to my mind.

Here are some links to today's Independent which give a breakdown of the projected cuts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00655/BBCgraphic_655142a.jpg

The main article is here:-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/cuts-will-leave-bbc2-screening-mostly-repeats-2366834.html

and while focus is placed on what will / might be happening to BBC2 mention is made of BBC Radio 3 and I quote:

" Radio 3 will broadcast far fewer live and orchestral concerts" (emphasis mine)

- Also " Music lovers will be concerned that Radio 3 must cut 25 per cent of lunchtime concerts and reduce the cost of its evening concerts. The BBC is conducting a review of its orchestras and singers to identify possible savings. "

So it looks like R3 evening disc jockeys will be spinning the turntables a la Classic FM? Or does it? Isn't there here an opportunity here to raid the BBC Archive - and broadcast Proms and other festival concerts from the past 50 years or so? Also are there ways of reducing the cost of live evening concerts without scrapping orchestras - e.g. more studio based concerts? These surely are cheaper than relays from say The Barbican, The Waterfront, The Festival Hall, or The Bridgewater Hall? Or am I being utterly naive?

I do though think the cuts are bad - harmful to Radio 3, musicians and music lovers everywhere. Making great music accessible to a wider audience isn't helped imho by killing off opportunities to hear and to see live chamber and orchestral music being performed.

Best Wishes,

Tevot